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	<title>Comments on: Guest Post on Cotton Embargo</title>
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	<description>All Central Asia, All The Time</description>
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		<title>By: uzbekistan.neweurasia.net &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cotton On</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-101719</link>
		<dc:creator>uzbekistan.neweurasia.net &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cotton On</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-101719</guid>
		<description>[...] Indeed, it could be said that the lack of the international community to enforce international laws is what has led to calls for the imposition of a cotton embargo on Uzbekistan as the only way to make the government in Tashkent review its approach to issues such as human rights, democracy and liberalism i.e. hit &#8216;em in the pocket! Others have made more emotional pleas than I for right-minded people to consider such action, notably David Walther over at Registan, but as Uzbekistan now appears to be embracing more closely Russia and the PRC post-Andijan, would an embargo really work? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Indeed, it could be said that the lack of the international community to enforce international laws is what has led to calls for the imposition of a cotton embargo on Uzbekistan as the only way to make the government in Tashkent review its approach to issues such as human rights, democracy and liberalism i.e. hit &#8216;em in the pocket! Others have made more emotional pleas than I for right-minded people to consider such action, notably David Walther over at Registan, but as Uzbekistan now appears to be embracing more closely Russia and the PRC post-Andijan, would an embargo really work? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan p</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-60887</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-60887</guid>
		<description>If the US boycotted China&#039;s finished goods, American&#039;s would go naked. Is there even a single major clothing manufacturer left in the US? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the US boycotted China&#8217;s finished goods, American&#8217;s would go naked. Is there even a single major clothing manufacturer left in the US?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hamm</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-60721</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Hamm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-60721</guid>
		<description>Excellent post David. Talk of a cotton embargo must scare the crap out of some powerful Uzbeks. If China was to jump in and &#039;rescue&#039; the Uzbek cotton industry many coutries would support a continued boycott against China&#039;s finished goods.

Would it work? Maybe not directly, but, like the invasion of Iraq making countries less likely to ignore our military threats, it would have an effect on countries that normally would ignore our econmic threats (plus some payback for kicking us out).

Good luck with your soon to be larger family. That&#039;s ultimately what it&#039;s all about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post David. Talk of a cotton embargo must scare the crap out of some powerful Uzbeks. If China was to jump in and &#8216;rescue&#8217; the Uzbek cotton industry many coutries would support a continued boycott against China&#8217;s finished goods.</p>
<p>Would it work? Maybe not directly, but, like the invasion of Iraq making countries less likely to ignore our military threats, it would have an effect on countries that normally would ignore our econmic threats (plus some payback for kicking us out).</p>
<p>Good luck with your soon to be larger family. That&#8217;s ultimately what it&#8217;s all about.</p>
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		<title>By: David l</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-60720</link>
		<dc:creator>David l</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-60720</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your heartfelt post David. Depressing but not surprising, and something that should be publicised as much as possible. There seem to be two arguments in favour of an embargo. The first is a kind of  selfish morality - we don&#039;t want to be associated with these abuses by wearing Uzbek cotton. Personally I support that, but it depends on your own moral position I suppose.. The second is that it will force the government to change. The government is highly dependent on cotton exports for hard currency receipts, and it is the one industry in the country that enriches individuals on a truly massive scale. It is the latter fact that makes some potential change from an embargo more likely. While Karimov et al may be willing to allow the cotton elite to undergo some losses for the sake of foreign policy goals, the real mafia bosses who run that industry may not. The key foreign players are mainly EU and Swiss middlemen, but also include US cotton buyers, and European banks who finance the purchases. Concerted EU and US action would have a serious impact on the trade. Its a purely market approach to human rights abuses - you have to meet some minimum standards to avoid losing your best customers. You can still make money and carry on with abuses, but your profits will be lower. Insiders point out that the industry is actually very complex, with lots of middlemen - including Russians and Uzbeks themselves through front companies - and lots of problems asserting origin, but I don&#039;t believe that an embargo is impossible. There&#039;s some more on this in ICG&#039;s report on cotton in Central Asia, which is somewhere on their website, www.icg.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your heartfelt post David. Depressing but not surprising, and something that should be publicised as much as possible. There seem to be two arguments in favour of an embargo. The first is a kind of  selfish morality &#8211; we don&#8217;t want to be associated with these abuses by wearing Uzbek cotton. Personally I support that, but it depends on your own moral position I suppose.. The second is that it will force the government to change. The government is highly dependent on cotton exports for hard currency receipts, and it is the one industry in the country that enriches individuals on a truly massive scale. It is the latter fact that makes some potential change from an embargo more likely. While Karimov et al may be willing to allow the cotton elite to undergo some losses for the sake of foreign policy goals, the real mafia bosses who run that industry may not. The key foreign players are mainly EU and Swiss middlemen, but also include US cotton buyers, and European banks who finance the purchases. Concerted EU and US action would have a serious impact on the trade. Its a purely market approach to human rights abuses &#8211; you have to meet some minimum standards to avoid losing your best customers. You can still make money and carry on with abuses, but your profits will be lower. Insiders point out that the industry is actually very complex, with lots of middlemen &#8211; including Russians and Uzbeks themselves through front companies &#8211; and lots of problems asserting origin, but I don&#8217;t believe that an embargo is impossible. There&#8217;s some more on this in ICG&#8217;s report on cotton in Central Asia, which is somewhere on their website, <a href="http://www.icg.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.icg.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: david_walther</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-60623</link>
		<dc:creator>david_walther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-60623</guid>
		<description>hi guys, 

i&#039;m not sure the cotton embargo would improve anything at the orphanage---you have to care before you would make any changes. since the orphans produce no economic benefit to anyone, improving their conditions has no cash value--however, if a country is heavily penalized for a specific situation (like the conditions of cotton workers) it becomes adventagious for them to improve those conditions and take a relatively minor loss in profits that way rather than a large loss in profits and contracts if the whole Western world were to stop buying the cotton until they made the changes. 

i am under no illusion that a US only embargo would have all that much effect on the situation--after all, we prefer our own cotton anyway. but i don&#039;t think this was ever particularly about a US embargo, especially since it was suggested by a British politician (or former politician). 

The EU is pretty pissed at Uzbekistan now, and if the US and the EU could together persuade South Korea and Turkey to boycott Uzbek cotton (okay, fairy tale land, i know) you&#039;ve got a pretty powerful economic incentive to at least LOOK like you might care. 

It&#039;s a hell of a lot easier to make a few concessions than have to renegotiate the whole basis of your economy with China. 

As for how this applies to the government, as I alluded to in the article, we all know that oil is not where Karimov got his 15 billion dollars, where Almatov makes his money, or even where Sanjar Umarov got his billion. 

Wealth and power are locked in a death grip here, anyone whose made a casual trip here could guess at that--and they didn&#039;t get that money from the Vin Zavod or making those little plastic cars. 

My argument is emotional, subjective, and pretty much completely unscientific. I have little actual hope for sanctions ever happening. Really, I just feel like it&#039;s high time we did SOMETHING more than write them carefully worded, diplomatically phrased, &quot;one could almost get the impression if one were not careful&quot; angry letters. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi guys, </p>
<p>i&#8217;m not sure the cotton embargo would improve anything at the orphanage&#8212;you have to care before you would make any changes. since the orphans produce no economic benefit to anyone, improving their conditions has no cash value&#8211;however, if a country is heavily penalized for a specific situation (like the conditions of cotton workers) it becomes adventagious for them to improve those conditions and take a relatively minor loss in profits that way rather than a large loss in profits and contracts if the whole Western world were to stop buying the cotton until they made the changes. </p>
<p>i am under no illusion that a US only embargo would have all that much effect on the situation&#8211;after all, we prefer our own cotton anyway. but i don&#8217;t think this was ever particularly about a US embargo, especially since it was suggested by a British politician (or former politician). </p>
<p>The EU is pretty pissed at Uzbekistan now, and if the US and the EU could together persuade South Korea and Turkey to boycott Uzbek cotton (okay, fairy tale land, i know) you&#8217;ve got a pretty powerful economic incentive to at least LOOK like you might care. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a hell of a lot easier to make a few concessions than have to renegotiate the whole basis of your economy with China. </p>
<p>As for how this applies to the government, as I alluded to in the article, we all know that oil is not where Karimov got his 15 billion dollars, where Almatov makes his money, or even where Sanjar Umarov got his billion. </p>
<p>Wealth and power are locked in a death grip here, anyone whose made a casual trip here could guess at that&#8211;and they didn&#8217;t get that money from the Vin Zavod or making those little plastic cars. </p>
<p>My argument is emotional, subjective, and pretty much completely unscientific. I have little actual hope for sanctions ever happening. Really, I just feel like it&#8217;s high time we did SOMETHING more than write them carefully worded, diplomatically phrased, &#8220;one could almost get the impression if one were not careful&#8221; angry letters.</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan p</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-60509</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2005 03:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-60509</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not disputing the conditions at the orphanage. Many people know about it. I know several university students who have toured the place. It&#039;s horrible. 
But what will an embargo of uzbek cotton do to fix this or any other terribly wrong thing in Uzbekistan? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not disputing the conditions at the orphanage. Many people know about it. I know several university students who have toured the place. It&#8217;s horrible.<br />
But what will an embargo of uzbek cotton do to fix this or any other terribly wrong thing in Uzbekistan?</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-59882</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-59882</guid>
		<description>I have also worked at this same orphanage and  what Nathan says is 100% truth. It is a brutal, heartbreaking experience which is repeated under even worse conditions once these children are shipped off to &quot;adult&quot; orphanges out in the regions where nobody can see them. When a govt. choose not only to ignore, but allow this type of inhumane treatment, then it is difficult to see it ever changing its policies in any area of human rights. There is no room for compassion, only for continued self enrichment through the many schemes of  bribery, extortion and corruption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have also worked at this same orphanage and  what Nathan says is 100% truth. It is a brutal, heartbreaking experience which is repeated under even worse conditions once these children are shipped off to &#8220;adult&#8221; orphanges out in the regions where nobody can see them. When a govt. choose not only to ignore, but allow this type of inhumane treatment, then it is difficult to see it ever changing its policies in any area of human rights. There is no room for compassion, only for continued self enrichment through the many schemes of  bribery, extortion and corruption.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-59694</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-59694</guid>
		<description>And therein lies my skepticism about an embargo. If it stood a reasonable chance of isolating and weakening the Uzbek government, it might be an idea worth pursuing. But, I&#039;m not sure it would end up hurting them so much as it would create an opportunity for less savory would-be allies to come to Karimov&#039;s rescue.

It might be better to let the Uzbek government have its insane rhetorical meltdown. They&#039;re doing a fair job of isolating themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And therein lies my skepticism about an embargo. If it stood a reasonable chance of isolating and weakening the Uzbek government, it might be an idea worth pursuing. But, I&#8217;m not sure it would end up hurting them so much as it would create an opportunity for less savory would-be allies to come to Karimov&#8217;s rescue.</p>
<p>It might be better to let the Uzbek government have its insane rhetorical meltdown. They&#8217;re doing a fair job of isolating themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan p</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-59693</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-59693</guid>
		<description>A nicely articulated account of an example of the reprehensible disregard the Uzbek government has for its citizens.

Now, forgive me for asking -- and please don&#039;t think I&#039;m suggesting the U.S. continue to support Karimov&#039;s activities -- but what exactly would an embargo do other than clear our consciences to a degree?  What change within the Uzbek government are we supposing an embargo will affect?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A nicely articulated account of an example of the reprehensible disregard the Uzbek government has for its citizens.</p>
<p>Now, forgive me for asking &#8212; and please don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m suggesting the U.S. continue to support Karimov&#8217;s activities &#8212; but what exactly would an embargo do other than clear our consciences to a degree?  What change within the Uzbek government are we supposing an embargo will affect?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2005/09/01/guest-post-on-cotton-embargo/comment-page-1/#comment-59691</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=5900#comment-59691</guid>
		<description>Thanks David!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks David!</p>
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