“So Uyghurs don’t like the authorities, they sound like most Chinese I know. I don’t hear people sing the praise of the Party and government except on People’s Daily site, but then again I don’t know Americans are so happy with their government unless I watch Fox News. So disgruntled citizens are okay unless they live in China, then it’s an racial and human rights issue.”

No, it’s a racial issue because Uyghurs are discriminated against on a ethnic basis. As for human rights issues, I’d say other Chinese citizens suffer human rights abuses as well. And yes, I would call it a racial and human rights issue if people are booted off US airplanes because they have beards and talk funny.

Sean, re: Chinese reach towards Persia, the Tang did briefly exercise some sort of sovereignty over Central Asia. In 657, they defeated the Western Turks at Issyk Kul, and installed puppet regimes. This lasted only 5 years, when rebellion tossed out the Tang proxies, but extended over Samarkand, Buhkara, Kabul, Herat and even as far as modern day Zarang, Iran. (See Millward, Eurasian Crossroads). Gosset is technically right, but I think it’s disingenuous and poor history to not disclose that this was a brief and tenuous sort of influence. 657 is the year nationalists use to define the Tang, not historians.

As for Talas, it’s worth pointing out the Tang were also mightily distracted by the Tibetans and the An Lushan rebellion. That really did a number on them.

Chinese are no different. Journalists just write stuff they have been paid for to write. This worls is the world of deceptive propaganda and deceit. US journalists are no different.

But that’s not the point.

The point is, a.) Gossett said the Chinese borders under the T’ang reached as far as Persia which is rubbish and b.) (which is my point and that of many others) that after Talas westward expansion stopped. Under the T’ang hey were expansionists. Until Talas, that is.

And how do you explain that campaign to Dayuan in the Shi Ji of Ssu Ma Chien?

Finally, rice isn’t the only staple crop in China. Millet is (and was) quite important for at least a millenia.

As for expansion: Perdue’s excellent book discussed China march west under the Qinq.

“Sure, Uyghurs by and large don’t support terrorism, but they don’t like the authorities either.”

So Uyghurs don’t like the authorities, they sound like most Chinese I know. I don’t hear people sing the praise of the Party and government except on People’s Daily site, but then again I don’t know Americans are so happy with their government unless I watch Fox News. So disgruntled citizens are okay unless they live in China, then it’s an racial and human rights issue.

@Talas poppycock:
Most Chinese never heard of the so called “Battle of Talas” and it never registered much significance in Chinese cultural and history. China’s agricultural nature determined the expansion was southward where settlers could grow rice. China emperors were never interested in expanding western into the desert, they had a hard time holding China’s wast territory already. It’s quite amusing to hear some “turans” bring it up like it’s another “Opium War”.

Secondly, if you face the Id Kah to your right there was about a mile long strip of old wooden Uighur homes. Some were upwards of 200-250 years old. Again, between 2003-2004 they were torn down and replaced with new, modern brick and mortar housing and storefronts to replace the old. Here’s the catch: for every one house they rebuilt they displaced at least 3 Uighurs families. Yes, the Chinese government gave them money for there trouble but it was no where near enough to buy anything but the public housing far on the outskirts of Kashgar and in many cases two families had to share one house that previously was on per family.

These are but two small examples. Bottom line: the Uighurs are just not better off.

The people who “generally benefit from the overall economic modernization” are the Han immigrants from the overcrowded east who are lured to Kashgar and other places with promises of subsidized new cell phones and housing in some cases.

Want to know why Balkash is going the way of the Aral?

And while I call it bullshit, I really believe that there’s a significant amount of truth in every story or lie. I know that a statement like,

“In reality, one can observe that Uighurs – as other minorities or the Han – generally benefit from the overall economic modernization,”

immediately triggers an adverse reaction in any sane person. The guy sounds like a dick. But I don’t think that anyone can really say that Uyghurs are worse-off living in modern China. I mean… were Uyghurs better-off 10, 20, 30 years ago living in a non-modern China? Would they be better-off living in Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, or Kyrgyzstan?

I know that Uyghurs in Xinjiang get a raw deal compared to much of the Han population. But I also believe that even China’s raw deal looks good to a lot of the native residents of Central Asia.

First, +996 502 555076 is the official cell phone number for public inquiries, published in US press release, which is, a bit, weird. It is not a free 800 landline, and fully charged.

Second: Investigation was being done from US side by US airforce. That’s judicial nonsense for me, because US airforce is the interested party. It’s kinda like murdering someone and investigating it… Think about it. US side refused to release recordings from black boxes for independent expertise by ICAO. This alone speaks volumes for me…

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123035834

Second, the article you point to is from December, and you conveniently ignore the release of the U.S. investigation into the accident earlier this year. Let’s see… the Kyrgyz report blames the crew of a plane that was sitting still for hitting a plane that was taking off. The U.S. report blames the air traffic controller for not bothering to check to see if the runway was clear or to question why there was garbled communication between the crew and the tower. The U.S. report also said that the U.S. crew contributed to the accident by not being clearer about what they were doing. Everyone was at fault for this accident. But the one thing the U.S. crew didn’t do is send a plane filled with passengers barreling down a runway without checking to see if the runway was clear — it was the air traffic controllers who did that. And if you don’t think that air traffic controllers should ultimately be responsible for what happens at their airports (or even someone looking out the tower window at the runway before clearing a plane to take off), I think I’ll cancel any plans I may have to fly into Kyrgyzstan any time soon.

Accidents happen. I respectfully suggest you consider switching to decalf.