Comments on: Sloppy Logic in the Blogosphere http://registan.net/index.php/2007/08/15/sloppy-logic-in-the-blogosphere/ Central Asia News -- All Central Asia, All The Time Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:53:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: debbieK http://registan.net/index.php/2007/08/15/sloppy-logic-in-the-blogosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-375436 debbieK Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:59:26 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/08/15/sloppy-logic-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-375436 Joshua, thanks for your reply. I don't think most people go to Instapundit for military analysis, he's just a conduit to the massive amounts of info available on the Net. You are right that the term "major" is an overstatement. But there IS a ground offensive, nonetheless. My husband happens to be heavily involved in what is going on SOF-wise in Afghanistan and Iraq, so I have some knowledge (not a lot, but some) on what is going on there, and I simply don't agree that Obama was right. We (U.S. and allies) are doing a lot of things on the ground from the PRT's all around the country that I mentioned previously to operations by both conventional and SOF forces. Are our operations perfect? Of course not. I can't speak to the specific allegation that the NYT brought up about the UK and our SOF, and, quite honestly, I don't trust a lot of what the NYT writes. But even if it is true, it is not necessarily indicative of operations throughout the entire country. You and I would probably both agree that we should be even more careful than we already are to not use air power in a way that risks civilian casualties which not only are inhumane but also hurt our goals there. But to make an over-the-top generalization like Obama made "so we're not JUST air-raiding villages and killing civilians" is not only detrimental to our mission there, but it is also a statement of ignorance of the breadth of operations ongoing by the U.S. and the rest of the coalition in Afghanistan. And yes, it is insulting to those many troops on the ground who are not going around killing civilians and who are often risking their own lives to prevent civilian deaths. Yes, people should never, ever, gloss over the death of civilians. But people like Obama should also not make massive, inaccurate generalizations like he did about our operations in Iraq. Again, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. But I appreciate your insights on the area. I recommend Registan to anyone interested in Central Asia as I am. Take care, DebK Joshua, thanks for your reply. I don’t think most people go to Instapundit for military analysis, he’s just a conduit to the massive amounts of info available on the Net. You are right that the term “major” is an overstatement. But there IS a ground offensive, nonetheless. My husband happens to be heavily involved in what is going on SOF-wise in Afghanistan and Iraq, so I have some knowledge (not a lot, but some) on what is going on there, and I simply don’t agree that Obama was right. We (U.S. and allies) are doing a lot of things on the ground from the PRT’s all around the country that I mentioned previously to operations by both conventional and SOF forces. Are our operations perfect? Of course not. I can’t speak to the specific allegation that the NYT brought up about the UK and our SOF, and, quite honestly, I don’t trust a lot of what the NYT writes. But even if it is true, it is not necessarily indicative of operations throughout the entire country. You and I would probably both agree that we should be even more careful than we already are to not use air power in a way that risks civilian casualties which not only are inhumane but also hurt our goals there. But to make an over-the-top generalization like Obama made “so we’re not JUST air-raiding villages and killing civilians” is not only detrimental to our mission there, but it is also a statement of ignorance of the breadth of operations ongoing by the U.S. and the rest of the coalition in Afghanistan. And yes, it is insulting to those many troops on the ground who are not going around killing civilians and who are often risking their own lives to prevent civilian deaths. Yes, people should never, ever, gloss over the death of civilians. But people like Obama should also not make massive, inaccurate generalizations like he did about our operations in Iraq. Again, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. But I appreciate your insights on the area. I recommend Registan to anyone interested in Central Asia as I am.
Take care, DebK

]]> By: Joshua Foust http://registan.net/index.php/2007/08/15/sloppy-logic-in-the-blogosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-375435 Joshua Foust Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:00:17 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/08/15/sloppy-logic-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-375435 Debk, that's fair, and I'll admit to having been frustrated while writing this. However, I still disagree with everything the Instapundit was saying—we are not in the midst of a "major ground offensive" (unless having as many troops for a country of 30 million as you could muster for a "surge" in a country of 20 million is "major"), we do rely on air power so much the Secretary General of NATO is requiring the use of smaller bombs to try to mitigate the civilian casualties, and our own SOF have been so ineffective allied countries have begun to ask them to leave their areas of operation because of how they're turning the locals against NATO. I explained this in a previous piece, if you'd care to read it ("Obama is actually right"). That is what frustrated me—Instapundit is among a group of bloggers who complain at length of the military ignorance of "the media" while not really understanding what is happening in the countries they complain aren't covered well. They are just as much a part of the problem as anyone else. Debk, that’s fair, and I’ll admit to having been frustrated while writing this. However, I still disagree with everything the Instapundit was saying—we are not in the midst of a “major ground offensive” (unless having as many troops for a country of 30 million as you could muster for a “surge” in a country of 20 million is “major”), we do rely on air power so much the Secretary General of NATO is requiring the use of smaller bombs to try to mitigate the civilian casualties, and our own SOF have been so ineffective allied countries have begun to ask them to leave their areas of operation because of how they’re turning the locals against NATO.

I explained this in a previous piece, if you’d care to read it (“Obama is actually right”). That is what frustrated me—Instapundit is among a group of bloggers who complain at length of the military ignorance of “the media” while not really understanding what is happening in the countries they complain aren’t covered well. They are just as much a part of the problem as anyone else.

]]> By: debbieK http://registan.net/index.php/2007/08/15/sloppy-logic-in-the-blogosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-375433 debbieK Mon, 27 Aug 2007 05:15:32 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/08/15/sloppy-logic-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-375433 Josh, I come to this site for informed analysis like yours, but I think you would be more convincing if your post wasn't so angry. The point that Glenn Reynolds was making with his bombing civilians comment was to rebut the remark that Sen. Obama had made just a a day or so before that we need to change our strategy in Afghanistan from just "air-raiding villages and killing civilians". He was simply saying that we have a major ground offensive going on which, by his comments, Obama seems to be ignorant of. (not to mention his ignorance on things like PRTs etc.) In any case, you've every right to point out the mistakes in his discussions of things related to Central Asia, but your angry tone tends to turn off people like me who are looking for smart, informed commentators on the region like yourself. Take care, Debk Josh, I come to this site for informed analysis like yours, but I think you would be more convincing if your post wasn’t so angry. The point that Glenn Reynolds was making with his bombing civilians comment was to rebut the remark that Sen. Obama had made just a a day or so before that we need to change our strategy in Afghanistan from just “air-raiding villages and killing civilians”. He was simply saying that we have a major ground offensive going on which, by his comments, Obama seems to be ignorant of. (not to mention his ignorance on things like PRTs etc.) In any case, you’ve every right to point out the mistakes in his discussions of things related to Central Asia, but your angry tone tends to turn off people like me who are looking for smart, informed commentators on the region like yourself.
Take care,
Debk

]]> By: Nitin http://registan.net/index.php/2007/08/15/sloppy-logic-in-the-blogosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-375382 Nitin Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:18:32 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/08/15/sloppy-logic-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-375382 Josh, Excellent post. It was the Pakistani Army's fast alliance with China that prevented it from the Islamists' ire. So as along as both China and the Islamists were separately on the same side of the Pakistani army, they were okay. Now that the Islamists are out in force against Musharraf, that cookie is crumbling. An additional element is the Baloch insurgency. The Baloch are targeting the Chinese not because of any Islamist angle, but because they see China as a partner of Rawalpindi-Islamabad that is economically exploiting them. Josh,

Excellent post. It was the Pakistani Army’s fast alliance with China that prevented it from the Islamists’ ire. So as along as both China and the Islamists were separately on the same side of the Pakistani army, they were okay. Now that the Islamists are out in force against Musharraf, that cookie is crumbling.

An additional element is the Baloch insurgency. The Baloch are targeting the Chinese not because of any Islamist angle, but because they see China as a partner of Rawalpindi-Islamabad that is economically exploiting them.

]]>