Comments on: Congressional forays into foreign policy… http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/ Central Asia News -- All Central Asia, All The Time Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:53:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mehmet http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-376133 Mehmet Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:49:19 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-376133 Well, I also have something to say about the genocide, where it concernes our country the most. First off, I want to say that I do not believe that a genocide occured. There is no explainable reason why we would anhiliate the armenians on a genocidal scale. Second, we are ready to carry this issue on the international court where both countries will open their archives, and both of the counties historians will discuss the issue. And, to article 301, in the turkish penalty law, I would say that it not just only refers to "genocide" or "turkishness", it is the only thing that we have to use as a weapon against islamist, and terrorist propoganda. And, if we would put that law down, I can assure you, the next day, people will get shot. They will. If someone would come up and speak loudly against my country in a way that is considered as rude, is the most unforgivable blemish for me. I can say, I could not hold myself back. This is not my view of freedom of speech. The first day we abolish that law, more will come, because people bear such big grudges against us, all will come up and say things that we Turks dont like to hear. A person tried to lower the Turkish flag from the mast in Istanbul and was nearly killed. Another person was shouting slogans in favor of Apo and the PKK, he was lynched to death, before the police could come to rescue him. The Laz, who hate kurds, will take matters in their own hands. The circassians who are very loyal from the foundation of this country will arise. The Turks that have lived side by side with kurds will make moves that they would not do. As to say, article 301 is necessery, because we would not stand for any speech that degrades our identities, or insults our founding fathers as the islamists like to do, they swear against Atatürk, they spit on our flag, they spit on us. If they are allowed to speak, I dont know what could possibly happen. I'm not even sure of myself in this issue. Hrant Dink was not murdered because he spoke for the genocide, he died because one of his phrases that he used in the newspaper of Agos was misunderstood, where he spoke of the poisonous blood of the Turks. He did not clearly meant to insult the turks, he was just using a metaphor or something, but clearly people misunderstood this, and also have taken matters in their own hands. If a misunderstood phrase can result to this, I dont know what literal words against us could cause. So reconsider this. Well, I also have something to say about the genocide, where it concernes our country the most.
First off, I want to say that I do not believe that a genocide occured.
There is no explainable reason why we would anhiliate the armenians on a genocidal scale.
Second, we are ready to carry this issue on the international court
where both countries will open their archives, and both of the counties historians will discuss the issue.
And, to article 301, in the turkish penalty law, I would say that it not just only refers to “genocide” or “turkishness”, it is the only thing that we have to use as a weapon against islamist, and terrorist propoganda.
And, if we would put that law down, I can assure you, the next day, people will get shot. They will. If someone would come up and speak loudly against my country in a way that is considered as rude, is the most unforgivable blemish for me. I can say, I could not hold myself back. This is not my view of freedom of speech.
The first day we abolish that law, more will come, because people bear such big grudges against us, all will come up and say things that we Turks dont like to hear. A person tried to lower the Turkish flag from the mast in Istanbul and was nearly killed. Another person was shouting slogans in favor of Apo and the PKK, he was lynched to death, before the police could come to rescue him. The Laz, who hate kurds, will take matters in their own hands. The circassians who are very loyal from the foundation of this country will arise. The Turks that have lived side by side with kurds will make moves that they would not do.
As to say, article 301 is necessery, because we would not stand for any speech that degrades our identities, or insults our founding fathers as the islamists like to do, they swear against Atatürk, they spit on our flag, they spit on us.
If they are allowed to speak, I dont know what could possibly happen. I’m not even sure of myself in this issue.
Hrant Dink was not murdered because he spoke for the genocide, he died because one of his phrases that he used in the newspaper of Agos was misunderstood, where he spoke of the poisonous blood of the Turks. He did not clearly meant to insult the turks, he was just using a metaphor or something, but clearly people misunderstood this, and also have taken matters in their own hands. If a misunderstood phrase can result to this, I dont know what literal words against us could cause.
So reconsider this.

]]> By: Kevork K Kalayjian Jr http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-375757 Kevork K Kalayjian Jr Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:14:18 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-375757 Bush OK’s Another Genocide by Opposing Armenian Genocide Resolution The last time a human rights issue created so much soul searching in America was probably September 22, 1862, when Abraham Lincoln signed a presidential decree for the emancipation of the slaves. The House Foreign Relations Committee vote 27/21 on H. R. 106, acknowledging the Armenian Genocide, is the emancipation of the survivors of the victims of the genocide. This is a giant step forward for more reverence to human dignity here in the United States of America and in the context of our image in the world both for our allies and for our adversaries. This resolution is the greatest gesture of love and respect to the Turkish people. Those who advocate denial treat the Turkish people as inferior being not able to handle the truth. Our NATO brother-in-arms should know that, just as David Kaczynski brought his brother Theodore John Kaczynski (The Unabomber) to justice, America will not stand idle for deniers of Genocide. By opposing this resolution, President George W. Bush, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, (the axis of evil) , are giving the green light to the Turkish government to go ahead and commit another genocide against other minorities in Turkey. All the necessary ingredients are there; there is the PKK which has been declared a terrorist organization; the Kurdish minority living in Turkey could easily be accused of supporting the PKK, George Bush, just like Hitler, has given his blessings to the Turkish generals, by virtually saying: who after all remembers the Armenians? Opponents of this human rights issue are bigots and racists who do not think that the Turkish people have the common sense and the decency to be treated as civilized human beings. Instead, these deniers are treating the Turks as if they are the ‘Barbarian of the Middle East’ who cannot be expected to behave like people living in Western democracies. Hence, while we do not deny the Holocaust because we have bases and enlisted personnel in Germany, these people make us believe that we should treat the Turks as sub-human barbarians and let their governments deny a crime so that we can use their bases. What’s next? The 9/11 attacks never happened? Or, was it a civil war? While other countries are criticized, sanctioned, and attacked when they conquer a neighboring country, according to the US State Department it is OK for the Turkish governments to attack and conquer half of Cyprus. Why? Because, we have to appease our ‘Barbarian Friends’ so that we can keep our bases in their country. It is a shame that the present administration still opposes this important human rights achievement. It is a disgrace that there are still people amongst us who see no harm in denying a crime for profit. This administration and its supporters marched into the White House as the defenders of the faith and the family values, they turned up to be a pack of wolves ready to sell America’s honor. I am proud that my representative, Congressman Eliot Engel, voted for this resolution. I urge you to make sure that H. R. comes to the House floor and that your representative votes for it! Bush OK’s Another Genocide by Opposing Armenian Genocide Resolution

The last time a human rights issue created so much soul searching in America was probably September 22, 1862, when Abraham Lincoln signed a presidential decree for the emancipation of the slaves.

The House Foreign Relations Committee vote 27/21 on H. R. 106, acknowledging the Armenian Genocide, is the emancipation of the survivors of the victims of the genocide. This is a giant step forward for more reverence to human dignity here in the United States of America and in the context of our image in the world both for our allies and for our adversaries.

This resolution is the greatest gesture of love and respect to the Turkish people. Those who advocate denial treat the Turkish people as inferior being not able to handle the truth. Our NATO brother-in-arms should know that, just as David Kaczynski brought his brother Theodore John Kaczynski (The Unabomber) to justice, America will not stand idle for deniers of Genocide.

By opposing this resolution, President George W. Bush, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, (the axis of evil) , are giving the green light to the Turkish government to go ahead and commit another genocide against other minorities in Turkey.

All the necessary ingredients are there; there is the PKK which has been declared a terrorist organization; the Kurdish minority living in Turkey could easily be accused of supporting the PKK, George Bush, just like Hitler, has given his blessings to the Turkish generals, by virtually saying: who after all remembers the Armenians?

Opponents of this human rights issue are bigots and racists who do not think that the Turkish people have the common sense and the decency to be treated as civilized human beings. Instead, these deniers are treating the Turks as if they are the ‘Barbarian of the Middle East’ who cannot be expected to behave like people living in Western democracies.

Hence, while we do not deny the Holocaust because we have bases and enlisted personnel in Germany, these people make us believe that we should treat the Turks as sub-human barbarians and let their governments deny a crime so that we can use their bases. What’s next? The 9/11 attacks never happened? Or, was it a civil war?
While other countries are criticized, sanctioned, and attacked when they conquer a neighboring country, according to the US State Department it is OK for the Turkish governments to attack and conquer half of Cyprus. Why? Because, we have to appease our ‘Barbarian Friends’ so that we can keep our bases in their country.

It is a shame that the present administration still opposes this important human rights achievement. It is a disgrace that there are still people amongst us who see no harm in denying a crime for profit.

This administration and its supporters marched into the White House as the defenders of the faith and the family values, they turned up to be a pack of wolves ready to sell America’s honor.

I am proud that my representative, Congressman Eliot Engel, voted for this resolution.

I urge you to make sure that H. R. comes to the House floor and that your representative votes for it!

]]> By: Richard http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-375754 Richard Sat, 20 Oct 2007 14:03:02 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-375754 Jessica thanks for the link to the piece in The Economist. For another approach from an Armenian-American see 'Armenians are Hot' in the American Spectator: http://spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12167 Jessica thanks for the link to the piece in The Economist.

For another approach from an Armenian-American see ‘Armenians are Hot’ in the American Spectator:
http://spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12167

]]> By: Jessica Luong http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-375753 Jessica Luong Fri, 19 Oct 2007 01:11:20 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-375753 Richard: Thanks for sharing that Op-Ed piece. Niall Fergusons views reflect the complexity of the issue. The Economist has a very thorough article on the subject this week: http://economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9987685 Richard: Thanks for sharing that Op-Ed piece. Niall Fergusons views reflect the complexity of the issue. The Economist has a very thorough article on the subject this week:
http://economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9987685

]]> By: Richard http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-375748 Richard Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:13:48 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-375748 Jessica, You might be interested in historian Niall Fergusons's opinion piece in the LA Times this morning: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ferguson15oct15,0,2244478.column?coll=la-opinion-center Ferguson's conclusion as a historian having reviewed the evidence including the archives of Ottoman ally Austria-Hungary is that it was a genocide. He is however against Resolution H.R. 106: "Armenian males of military age were rounded up and shot. Women and children were herded onto trains, driven into the desert and left to die. The number of Armenians who were killed or died prematurely may have exceeded 1 million, a huge proportion of a prewar population that numbered, at the very most, 2.4 million, but was probably closer to 1.8 million. With good reason, the American consul in Izmir declared that the fate of the Armenians "surpasse[d] in deliberate . . . horror and in extent anything that has hitherto happened in the history of the world." It is absurd, then, that Turkish politicians and some academics (not all of them Turks) insist that the issue is somehow open to debate, though there is certainly room for more research to be done in the Turkish archives. And it is deplorable that writers in Turkey can still be prosecuted for describing the fate of the Armenians as genocide. Yet I remain far from convinced that anything has been gained by last week's resolution. Indeed, something may well have been lost." His recent book "The War of the World" is well worth reading by the way. Jessica,

You might be interested in historian Niall Fergusons’s opinion piece in the LA Times this morning:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ferguson15oct15,0,2244478.column?coll=la-opinion-center

Ferguson’s conclusion as a historian having reviewed the evidence including the archives of Ottoman ally Austria-Hungary is that it was a genocide. He is however against Resolution H.R. 106:

“Armenian males of military age were rounded up and shot. Women and children were herded onto trains, driven into the desert and left to die. The number of Armenians who were killed or died prematurely may have exceeded 1 million, a huge proportion of a prewar population that numbered, at the very most, 2.4 million, but was probably closer to 1.8 million. With good reason, the American consul in Izmir declared that the fate of the Armenians “surpasse[d] in deliberate . . . horror and in extent anything that has hitherto happened in the history of the world.”

It is absurd, then, that Turkish politicians and some academics (not all of them Turks) insist that the issue is somehow open to debate, though there is certainly room for more research to be done in the Turkish archives. And it is deplorable that writers in Turkey can still be prosecuted for describing the fate of the Armenians as genocide.

Yet I remain far from convinced that anything has been gained by last week’s resolution. Indeed, something may well have been lost.”

His recent book “The War of the World” is well worth reading by the way.

]]> By: Jessica Luong http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-375744 Jessica Luong Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:48:10 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-375744 Richard: Thanks for your comments. I'd think these kind of issues would draw attention of the EU, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and, as a result, be covered in the media - something I don't recall seeing. Let me know if I've simply missed it. State Dept.'s report paints a picture more mixed than your description. "The authorities monitor the activities of Eastern Orthodox churches but do not interfere with their activities. While the Government does not recognize the ecumenical nature of the Greek Orthodox patriarch, it acknowledges him as head of the Turkish Greek Orthodox community and does not interfere with his travels or other ecumenical activities. The Ecumenical Patriarch in Istanbul continues to seek to reopen the Halki seminary on the island of Heybeli in the Sea of Marmara. The seminary has been closed since 1971, when the State nationalized all private institutions of higher learning. Under existing restrictions, including a citizenship requirement, religious communities largely remain unable to train new clergy in the country for eventual leadership. Coreligionists from outside the country have been permitted to assume leadership positions." Still, if these issues exist, both Greeks and Armenians should take them to int'l bodies; and the liberal part of the Turkish elite should welcome that pressure: it's good for their democracy. I'm surprised that apparently hasn't happened. Michael: Thank you for clarification. While AJE may not be the media monster it's often presented, they can be openly biased. You can see it in this clip of their coverage of Japanese-Chinese defense spending. That's one area where, you would think, they could easily afford to be balanced: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvyFw_8w-G4 Richard: Thanks for your comments. I’d think these kind of issues would draw attention of the EU, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and, as a result, be covered in the media – something I don’t recall seeing. Let me know if I’ve simply missed it.
State Dept.’s report paints a picture more mixed than your description.

“The authorities monitor the activities of Eastern Orthodox churches but do not interfere with their activities. While the Government does not recognize the ecumenical nature of the Greek Orthodox patriarch, it acknowledges him as head of the Turkish Greek Orthodox community and does not interfere with his travels or other ecumenical activities. The Ecumenical Patriarch in Istanbul continues to seek to reopen the Halki seminary on the island of Heybeli in the Sea of Marmara. The seminary has been closed since 1971, when the State nationalized all private institutions of higher learning. Under existing restrictions, including a citizenship requirement, religious communities largely remain unable to train new clergy in the country for eventual leadership. Coreligionists from outside the country have been permitted to assume leadership positions.”

Still, if these issues exist, both Greeks and Armenians should take them to int’l bodies; and the liberal part of the Turkish elite should welcome that pressure: it’s good for their democracy. I’m surprised that apparently hasn’t happened.

Michael: Thank you for clarification. While AJE may not be the media monster it’s often presented, they can be openly biased. You can see it in this clip of their coverage of Japanese-Chinese defense spending. That’s one area where, you would think, they could easily afford to be balanced: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvyFw_8w-G4

]]> By: Michael Hancock http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-375740 Michael Hancock Sun, 14 Oct 2007 04:22:46 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-375740 Diplomacy, [was it Mark Twain who said it?] is the art of saying "Nice Doggie" while you look for a big stick. That's the State Department's role in this, I'm afraid. Diplomacy, [was it Mark Twain who said it?] is the art of saying “Nice Doggie” while you look for a big stick. That’s the State Department’s role in this, I’m afraid.

]]> By: Nathan http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-375739 Nathan Sun, 14 Oct 2007 03:29:08 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-375739 Kevork, the fact that I am inclined to insist an answer to the questions I posed should, I hope, show that the State Department is not exactly at the top of places for which I am interested in working. I would also hope that my firm conviction that respect for human rights requires acts, not words and gestures, demonstrates the same thing. Kevork, the fact that I am inclined to insist an answer to the questions I posed should, I hope, show that the State Department is not exactly at the top of places for which I am interested in working. I would also hope that my firm conviction that respect for human rights requires acts, not words and gestures, demonstrates the same thing.

]]> By: Joshua Foust http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-375738 Joshua Foust Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:11:40 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-375738 Actually, Kevork, working for the State Department is not at the top of places I would go to learn about human rights. But that is beside the point. Neither Nathan, nor I, need to be told anything about the subject—even a cursory search through this blog would back that up. Actually, Kevork, working for the State Department is not at the top of places I would go to learn about human rights. But that is beside the point. Neither Nathan, nor I, need to be told anything about the subject—even a cursory search through this blog would back that up.

]]> By: Kevork K Kalayjian Jr http://registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-375737 Kevork K Kalayjian Jr Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:54:50 +0000 http://www.registan.net/index.php/2007/10/11/congressional-forays-into-foreign-policy/#comment-375737 Nathan, you will start learning about human rights and take it into consideration in your dealings with other countries when you are working for the State Department. Respecting human rights is the motherboard of democracy. Kevork Kalayjian Nathan, you will start learning about human rights and take it into consideration in your dealings with other countries when you are working for the State Department.

Respecting human rights is the motherboard of democracy.

Kevork Kalayjian

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