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	<title>Comments on: Georgia&#8217;s Propaganda</title>
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		<title>By: Mark Bolan</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378326</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 19:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378326</guid>
		<description>Why is it so hard for people to understand there was no miscalculation? Not georgians but the one who claim to be their president was a two nit lawyer in the offices of Soros in NY and is been groomed for this job exactly and when was time they put him on the position and location to execute what he been paid to do.
 Put Russia in a very embarrassing position , halt the SCO becoming a counter weight for the Neocons plans in the general area and test Russia if she is more hot air than action so they know how to move next in Iran for example as well in eastern europe. It does not take a genius to put the dots together it only take intelligent thinking people who dont focus on one aspect of the global picture isolating it from the rest bigger picture and then it is very easy if you dont take things out of context to understand that 2+2 always equals 4.
 The neocons only miscalculated one thing not Saakashvili they truly believed that Russians was not going to react as they reacted and they be coming running to them asking for justice as been on their high horse giving account to none while committing all the genocides they have around the world lost touch with reality and they truly believe that when they think it happen.
 The other miscalculation they have make is the fact that now they open a war that their next move it means only one weapon can be used and at the same time they use this weapon they be loosing their mass media tool not that it matters after that.
 Has any of you understand this sub humans mean to use nuclear weapons and have pave the road to this with the use of their DU?
 I implore all the people who are on the blogs to stop wasting their time speculating and act while we still have time to act. Spend you energies into uniting together despite deference’s and nationalities and get to really know each other so next time one of us is killed is not just a statistic but a friend we care about and we do something about.
THINK PEOPLE THINK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it so hard for people to understand there was no miscalculation? Not georgians but the one who claim to be their president was a two nit lawyer in the offices of Soros in NY and is been groomed for this job exactly and when was time they put him on the position and location to execute what he been paid to do.<br />
 Put Russia in a very embarrassing position , halt the SCO becoming a counter weight for the Neocons plans in the general area and test Russia if she is more hot air than action so they know how to move next in Iran for example as well in eastern europe. It does not take a genius to put the dots together it only take intelligent thinking people who dont focus on one aspect of the global picture isolating it from the rest bigger picture and then it is very easy if you dont take things out of context to understand that 2+2 always equals 4.<br />
 The neocons only miscalculated one thing not Saakashvili they truly believed that Russians was not going to react as they reacted and they be coming running to them asking for justice as been on their high horse giving account to none while committing all the genocides they have around the world lost touch with reality and they truly believe that when they think it happen.<br />
 The other miscalculation they have make is the fact that now they open a war that their next move it means only one weapon can be used and at the same time they use this weapon they be loosing their mass media tool not that it matters after that.<br />
 Has any of you understand this sub humans mean to use nuclear weapons and have pave the road to this with the use of their DU?<br />
 I implore all the people who are on the blogs to stop wasting their time speculating and act while we still have time to act. Spend you energies into uniting together despite deference’s and nationalities and get to really know each other so next time one of us is killed is not just a statistic but a friend we care about and we do something about.<br />
THINK PEOPLE THINK</p>
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		<title>By: AMac</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378318</link>
		<dc:creator>AMac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378318</guid>
		<description>As far as I can tell, David Axe has not responded to any of the substantial criticisms of Gordon Hahn&#039;s talking points that have been made in the comments to his &quot;meticulous detail&quot; post.  Axe and Haupt seem to value their story line, irrespective of what a balanced evaluation of the evidence might show.  This is disappointing, albeit common.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I can tell, David Axe has not responded to any of the substantial criticisms of Gordon Hahn&#8217;s talking points that have been made in the comments to his &#8220;meticulous detail&#8221; post.  Axe and Haupt seem to value their story line, irrespective of what a balanced evaluation of the evidence might show.  This is disappointing, albeit common.</p>
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		<title>By: fnord</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378311</link>
		<dc:creator>fnord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 06:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378311</guid>
		<description>Oldschoolboy: &quot;If Medvedev and Putin have leveld Tbilisi, it would be their suicide. &quot;

Your premise seems to me at fault, you underestimate the russian nationalism. Nobody wept for Groznyj and the following ethnic cleansing of the Chechen homelands. Russia *chose* not to go allout on Georgia due to the implications abroad, but if they had gone all medieval I think very few Russians would have protested. Anyway, the point was that for the US to start rebuilding the Georgian armed forces again seems like throwing money out the window, because at the point where Georgia is approaching a level of threat to the russians, they will move in again.

As for the muslim threat, sure enough the problems in Ingushetia etc. are real for Russia. The point you do not see is that Iran, Pakistan etc. are also fighting the wahabi extremists. So supporting Iran is not equal to suporting the AQ elements that dream of the Caliphate, quite the opposite. 

I agree that the best long term strategy for Russia is to seek peace, however, due to economical reasons. If they want to have a sustainable economy they must get their production levels up, start renewing their industry, etc. This is the carrot the west should offer the russians. But by arming Georgia, we are playing up to the very strong russian nationalism, giving them the choice between honour and money. I dont think Russia will choose money if forced to choose, rather they will turn towards China and be lost to the west.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oldschoolboy: &#8220;If Medvedev and Putin have leveld Tbilisi, it would be their suicide. &#8221;</p>
<p>Your premise seems to me at fault, you underestimate the russian nationalism. Nobody wept for Groznyj and the following ethnic cleansing of the Chechen homelands. Russia *chose* not to go allout on Georgia due to the implications abroad, but if they had gone all medieval I think very few Russians would have protested. Anyway, the point was that for the US to start rebuilding the Georgian armed forces again seems like throwing money out the window, because at the point where Georgia is approaching a level of threat to the russians, they will move in again.</p>
<p>As for the muslim threat, sure enough the problems in Ingushetia etc. are real for Russia. The point you do not see is that Iran, Pakistan etc. are also fighting the wahabi extremists. So supporting Iran is not equal to suporting the AQ elements that dream of the Caliphate, quite the opposite. </p>
<p>I agree that the best long term strategy for Russia is to seek peace, however, due to economical reasons. If they want to have a sustainable economy they must get their production levels up, start renewing their industry, etc. This is the carrot the west should offer the russians. But by arming Georgia, we are playing up to the very strong russian nationalism, giving them the choice between honour and money. I dont think Russia will choose money if forced to choose, rather they will turn towards China and be lost to the west.</p>
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		<title>By: Oldschool Boy</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378309</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldschool Boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 06:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378309</guid>
		<description>Fortunately, despite all the bravery that is supposed to work on image of a tough man for the russian people, Putin with his man-boobs is not that stupid to piss against the wind. 
If Medvedev and Putin have leveld Tbilisi, it would be their suicide. Russians support their presidents now, but do you think they would like to live again behind the Iron Curtain in a Gulag-like military campground surronded by enemies with food distributed on food cards? I  do not think so.

Look, for centuries russians were superior military power mostly due to their great number. In 19th and 20th centruries russians were one of the most numerous nations in the World. Unfortunately, all this potential was lost in numerous conflicts with neighbors. Now russian population is declining with a faster rate than European population. Soon there will not be enough young men to serve in Army. So, the best strategy for Russia now is to seek peace with its neighbors.

As for muslim radicals, believe me, I know them and I know Chechens, Ingushs and Dagestanys well enough (I have some close friends) to tell you that regardsless whether thoese radicals are shii or sunny, russians for them are as bad and dirty as any other infidel. And if America is behind the Oceans, russians do not have such geographic indulgence and keeping those muslim radicals quiet is in the best interests of Russia. Russians must be least interested in Western failure in Iraq and Afghanistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fortunately, despite all the bravery that is supposed to work on image of a tough man for the russian people, Putin with his man-boobs is not that stupid to piss against the wind.<br />
If Medvedev and Putin have leveld Tbilisi, it would be their suicide. Russians support their presidents now, but do you think they would like to live again behind the Iron Curtain in a Gulag-like military campground surronded by enemies with food distributed on food cards? I  do not think so.</p>
<p>Look, for centuries russians were superior military power mostly due to their great number. In 19th and 20th centruries russians were one of the most numerous nations in the World. Unfortunately, all this potential was lost in numerous conflicts with neighbors. Now russian population is declining with a faster rate than European population. Soon there will not be enough young men to serve in Army. So, the best strategy for Russia now is to seek peace with its neighbors.</p>
<p>As for muslim radicals, believe me, I know them and I know Chechens, Ingushs and Dagestanys well enough (I have some close friends) to tell you that regardsless whether thoese radicals are shii or sunny, russians for them are as bad and dirty as any other infidel. And if America is behind the Oceans, russians do not have such geographic indulgence and keeping those muslim radicals quiet is in the best interests of Russia. Russians must be least interested in Western failure in Iraq and Afghanistan.</p>
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		<title>By: fnord</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378306</link>
		<dc:creator>fnord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378306</guid>
		<description>Oldschoolboy: Interesting and rational points, compliments. However, i tend to disagree with you. It seems clear to me that using strategic bombers and cruise missiles, they could have leveled Tblisi and/or Gori to the ground, just as they could have done a gradual artillery-covered approach instead of a armor blitz. Given the airsuperiority of the russians, they could have sat back and deployed the 37th Air Army and whistled while Georgia became a small black spot on the ground. SO I think it is safe from a military pov to say that Russia deployed a RRF (Rapid Reaction Force) and did not go in to crush Georgia decisively.

On the point of the Russian forces being oldfashioned, absolutely, to a certain extent. There has been a large overhaul going on the last three years, especially in the airforce and the navy but also in the army itself. The combined arms movement in Georgia run pretty smoothly, loosing only 70 men in a blitz against US trained and Israeli armed regular forces in defensive positions does not seem like a big loss to me at all, rather it suggests a overwhelming win. The fact that the georgians paniced so totally that they didnt even bother to defend their staging area, Gori, is another indicator that the russians didnt even have to try, except for at the initial impact. To speculate: The georgians present the loss of a elite unit to the last man at a unidentified bridge north of Sishkavili, one could assume that this was initial contact and that many of the losses may have occured there.

I dont think the russkies could go one on one against the US forces, and fortunately they wont have to because the US is currently overdeployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now that the Pakistanis are seizing up, there is a very real possibility that the US will collapse in Afghanistan due to logistic choking, something the russians can take part of. If you doubt the guts of Vladimir Putin I think you are in for a surprise. Israel acknowledged this power by stopping arms-sales to Georgia well in advance of the war. And as usual, there is a failure to differentiate between muslims and muslims: The Kaukasian AQ are a problem for russia, sure, as are the chechens. Iran, on the other hand are close allies and so are Hezbollah. Shia - Sunni. Or even Wahabbi - Sufi, if you please. I think V. Putin may be very interested in payback for the Afghan wars, wouldnt you if the boots were on the other foot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oldschoolboy: Interesting and rational points, compliments. However, i tend to disagree with you. It seems clear to me that using strategic bombers and cruise missiles, they could have leveled Tblisi and/or Gori to the ground, just as they could have done a gradual artillery-covered approach instead of a armor blitz. Given the airsuperiority of the russians, they could have sat back and deployed the 37th Air Army and whistled while Georgia became a small black spot on the ground. SO I think it is safe from a military pov to say that Russia deployed a RRF (Rapid Reaction Force) and did not go in to crush Georgia decisively.</p>
<p>On the point of the Russian forces being oldfashioned, absolutely, to a certain extent. There has been a large overhaul going on the last three years, especially in the airforce and the navy but also in the army itself. The combined arms movement in Georgia run pretty smoothly, loosing only 70 men in a blitz against US trained and Israeli armed regular forces in defensive positions does not seem like a big loss to me at all, rather it suggests a overwhelming win. The fact that the georgians paniced so totally that they didnt even bother to defend their staging area, Gori, is another indicator that the russians didnt even have to try, except for at the initial impact. To speculate: The georgians present the loss of a elite unit to the last man at a unidentified bridge north of Sishkavili, one could assume that this was initial contact and that many of the losses may have occured there.</p>
<p>I dont think the russkies could go one on one against the US forces, and fortunately they wont have to because the US is currently overdeployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now that the Pakistanis are seizing up, there is a very real possibility that the US will collapse in Afghanistan due to logistic choking, something the russians can take part of. If you doubt the guts of Vladimir Putin I think you are in for a surprise. Israel acknowledged this power by stopping arms-sales to Georgia well in advance of the war. And as usual, there is a failure to differentiate between muslims and muslims: The Kaukasian AQ are a problem for russia, sure, as are the chechens. Iran, on the other hand are close allies and so are Hezbollah. Shia &#8211; Sunni. Or even Wahabbi &#8211; Sufi, if you please. I think V. Putin may be very interested in payback for the Afghan wars, wouldnt you if the boots were on the other foot?</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378304</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 01:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378304</guid>
		<description>Guys, these are great comments. I&#039;m following up on some of this. Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys, these are great comments. I&#8217;m following up on some of this. Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Oldschool Boy</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378302</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldschool Boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 22:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378302</guid>
		<description>fnord, that is what I am saying: russians did not use any fancy weapon only because they rely on their 500-year-old tactics, press with the number of personnel and tanks. If russians were smart fighters, they would not have to lose 70 soldiers dead and 250 wounded within only 2-3 days campaign. This 300 man loss does not seem like a limited expeditionary force. As far as I know there is NO new &amp; restored Russian Army. There is old and inefficient Russian Army, the remnant of much degraded Soviet Army. I will not bother with reference to websites (there are plenty), but despite all the bolstery, Russian Army was not getting enough weaponry and ammunition to replace worn and disabled equipment since the collapse of Soviet Union. If you study history, Russian military has always suffered from lack of communication, logistic and modernization. The only way to reach victory was to outnumber the enemy. As one of great russian generals stated &quot;it is not generals who wins wars for Russia, it is russian women giving birth to more soldiers&quot; meaning that only numbers of soldiers was the main factor of military success. Unfortunately for russian warmongers, russian women do not seem to agree any more to produce cannon fodder as they used to.     
If you think that Russia can really stand up to another confrontation with the USA, let me remind you that they already tryed. Russians were selling weapons to China, Korea, Nikaragua, Cuba, etc to be used against the USA and NATO, however, they lost that war when they were much stronger than now. What makes you think that they will have enough guts to try to do it again? Besides, arming Iran, Hesbollah or North Korea will backfire against Russia itself. Do you think muslim radicals love Russia? Did you know that during Chechnya wars chechen rebels were using weapons that Russia had previously sold to some Mid-Eastern countries? Believe me, if, God forbid, there is a Global War between Muslim World and the West, Russia will be the first victim of it.
And I guess nobody can tell Georgians not to arm themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fnord, that is what I am saying: russians did not use any fancy weapon only because they rely on their 500-year-old tactics, press with the number of personnel and tanks. If russians were smart fighters, they would not have to lose 70 soldiers dead and 250 wounded within only 2-3 days campaign. This 300 man loss does not seem like a limited expeditionary force. As far as I know there is NO new &amp; restored Russian Army. There is old and inefficient Russian Army, the remnant of much degraded Soviet Army. I will not bother with reference to websites (there are plenty), but despite all the bolstery, Russian Army was not getting enough weaponry and ammunition to replace worn and disabled equipment since the collapse of Soviet Union. If you study history, Russian military has always suffered from lack of communication, logistic and modernization. The only way to reach victory was to outnumber the enemy. As one of great russian generals stated &#8220;it is not generals who wins wars for Russia, it is russian women giving birth to more soldiers&#8221; meaning that only numbers of soldiers was the main factor of military success. Unfortunately for russian warmongers, russian women do not seem to agree any more to produce cannon fodder as they used to.<br />
If you think that Russia can really stand up to another confrontation with the USA, let me remind you that they already tryed. Russians were selling weapons to China, Korea, Nikaragua, Cuba, etc to be used against the USA and NATO, however, they lost that war when they were much stronger than now. What makes you think that they will have enough guts to try to do it again? Besides, arming Iran, Hesbollah or North Korea will backfire against Russia itself. Do you think muslim radicals love Russia? Did you know that during Chechnya wars chechen rebels were using weapons that Russia had previously sold to some Mid-Eastern countries? Believe me, if, God forbid, there is a Global War between Muslim World and the West, Russia will be the first victim of it.<br />
And I guess nobody can tell Georgians not to arm themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: archon</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378301</link>
		<dc:creator>archon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378301</guid>
		<description>Not to wax mawkishly sentimental, but is our interest in thwarting Russia really so compelling as to justify forcing the South Ossetians to submit to the Georgians?

Human Rights in Georgia, February-March 2000, South Caucasian Human Rights Monitor, Part 3:

Discrimination on ethnic grounds:

Zoya Kodalova is one of the seven teachers of Secondary School No. 1 of the Town of Kareli...who were fired for &quot;being of Ossetian origins and having an Ossetian family&quot; on 4 March, 1991....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to wax mawkishly sentimental, but is our interest in thwarting Russia really so compelling as to justify forcing the South Ossetians to submit to the Georgians?</p>
<p>Human Rights in Georgia, February-March 2000, South Caucasian Human Rights Monitor, Part 3:</p>
<p>Discrimination on ethnic grounds:</p>
<p>Zoya Kodalova is one of the seven teachers of Secondary School No. 1 of the Town of Kareli&#8230;who were fired for &#8220;being of Ossetian origins and having an Ossetian family&#8221; on 4 March, 1991&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Erickson</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378300</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Erickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378300</guid>
		<description>Here are another couple good excerpts:

[Targamadze, head of Christian-Democratic Party] also said that Russia had been gradually preparing the ground for an invasion of Georgia, but he also partially put the blame on the Georgian authorities, saying that their rhetoric and policies had been “designed to finally reintegrate the Tskhinvali region into Georgia by using force.” Targamadze added that it was now “hard to prove that Georgia didn’t start the war.”

“It seems to me that Saakashvili was misled by someone telling him that the Russians would not intervene in Tskhinvali on condition that we would stop our active measures in respect of Abkhazia,” he told the daily Rezonansi. “That is my impression, because otherwise it is unclear how it was possible to fall into this trap if there were no guarantees that the Russians would not intervene.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are another couple good excerpts:</p>
<p>[Targamadze, head of Christian-Democratic Party] also said that Russia had been gradually preparing the ground for an invasion of Georgia, but he also partially put the blame on the Georgian authorities, saying that their rhetoric and policies had been “designed to finally reintegrate the Tskhinvali region into Georgia by using force.” Targamadze added that it was now “hard to prove that Georgia didn’t start the war.”</p>
<p>“It seems to me that Saakashvili was misled by someone telling him that the Russians would not intervene in Tskhinvali on condition that we would stop our active measures in respect of Abkhazia,” he told the daily Rezonansi. “That is my impression, because otherwise it is unclear how it was possible to fall into this trap if there were no guarantees that the Russians would not intervene.”</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Erickson</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-378298</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Erickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/09/03/georgias-propaganda/#comment-378298</guid>
		<description>It seems even Georgians are acknowledging the Georgian propaganda. &lt;a href=&quot;http://civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=19400&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This article&lt;/a&gt; ran recently in Civil.ge.

“Extensive propaganda is currently underway, blaming the catastrophic consequences [of the conflict] on everyone – an aggressive Russia, an ignorant West (which, it is claimed, ignored the Georgian leaders’ warnings); the opposition; Russian spies, etc. – everyone, but not the authorities themselves,” the letter reads.

Then it lists some questions, which the signatories say, should be answered by the authorities, including, why it happened that the Georgian side “despite the U.S. administration’s warnings, fell into the Russian trap.” 

The letter blames the Georgian authorities for “the catastrophic consequences” and says that “the authorities, which have in fact prepared the ground for these consequences through its non-professionalism and anti-democracy, are now claiming that what has happened was impossible to prevent.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems even Georgians are acknowledging the Georgian propaganda. <a href="http://civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=19400" rel="nofollow">This article</a> ran recently in Civil.ge.</p>
<p>“Extensive propaganda is currently underway, blaming the catastrophic consequences [of the conflict] on everyone – an aggressive Russia, an ignorant West (which, it is claimed, ignored the Georgian leaders’ warnings); the opposition; Russian spies, etc. – everyone, but not the authorities themselves,” the letter reads.</p>
<p>Then it lists some questions, which the signatories say, should be answered by the authorities, including, why it happened that the Georgian side “despite the U.S. administration’s warnings, fell into the Russian trap.” </p>
<p>The letter blames the Georgian authorities for “the catastrophic consequences” and says that “the authorities, which have in fact prepared the ground for these consequences through its non-professionalism and anti-democracy, are now claiming that what has happened was impossible to prevent.”</p>
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