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	<title>Comments on: Cotton Harvest 2008</title>
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	<description>Central Asia News -- All Central Asia, All The Time</description>
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		<title>By: Oldschool Boy</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378628</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldschool Boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/#comment-378628</guid>
		<description>Cassandra,
In an ideal world it would be as you say. However, in the real world the poorest always get hit the hardest.
By the way, how punishment of those bad guys controlling the cotton trade is going to help poor Uzbek children?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cassandra,<br />
In an ideal world it would be as you say. However, in the real world the poorest always get hit the hardest.<br />
By the way, how punishment of those bad guys controlling the cotton trade is going to help poor Uzbek children?</p>
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		<title>By: Cassandra</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378627</link>
		<dc:creator>Cassandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 20:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/#comment-378627</guid>
		<description>JTapp seems pretty ignorant of the cotton industry in Uzbekistan.  If you had at least a basic understanding of the situation there, you would know that the world price affects farmers there not one iota, as they are forced to sell their entire crop to the state for far less.  The state then in turns forces children out to the harvest to maximize the delta between the cost of the production and what they (meaning the shadowy semi-private trading corporations controlled by figures close to or in government) can earn on the global market.  

Wal Mart&#039;s refusal to buy slave-produced cotton might not help Uzbek children immediately, but as fewer and fewer responsible merchants and manufacturers want to deal with the Uzbeks, it will allow those who do (the Russians and Chinese) to force the Uzbeks to take a lower price, and so will hit the pocketbooks of those who control the trade (some say is hitting already).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JTapp seems pretty ignorant of the cotton industry in Uzbekistan.  If you had at least a basic understanding of the situation there, you would know that the world price affects farmers there not one iota, as they are forced to sell their entire crop to the state for far less.  The state then in turns forces children out to the harvest to maximize the delta between the cost of the production and what they (meaning the shadowy semi-private trading corporations controlled by figures close to or in government) can earn on the global market.  </p>
<p>Wal Mart&#8217;s refusal to buy slave-produced cotton might not help Uzbek children immediately, but as fewer and fewer responsible merchants and manufacturers want to deal with the Uzbeks, it will allow those who do (the Russians and Chinese) to force the Uzbeks to take a lower price, and so will hit the pocketbooks of those who control the trade (some say is hitting already).</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hancock</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378624</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/#comment-378624</guid>
		<description>@Admin
I&#039;d suggest blocking oyun, if that is possible, because it&#039;s clearly spam.  If you click on his link, it&#039;s just some trashy website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Admin<br />
I&#8217;d suggest blocking oyun, if that is possible, because it&#8217;s clearly spam.  If you click on his link, it&#8217;s just some trashy website.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hancock</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378623</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/#comment-378623</guid>
		<description>What is the deal with Oyun copying and pasting others comments as his own?  Now he&#039;s quoting Oldschool Boy.  Weird.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the deal with Oyun copying and pasting others comments as his own?  Now he&#8217;s quoting Oldschool Boy.  Weird.</p>
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		<title>By: Azjon</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378615</link>
		<dc:creator>Azjon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/#comment-378615</guid>
		<description>You are right  Nick farmers and &quot;seasonal slaves&quot; have a no choice but to work for free. I&#039;ve done it and pretty much everyone in Uzbekistan had to do it. They used to say that &quot;Партия и правительство&quot; needed our help in the past. I don&#039;t know what kind of BS Karimov feed people now to justify his actions. 

My best regards. 
Azjon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right  Nick farmers and &#8220;seasonal slaves&#8221; have a no choice but to work for free. I&#8217;ve done it and pretty much everyone in Uzbekistan had to do it. They used to say that &#8220;Партия и правительство&#8221; needed our help in the past. I don&#8217;t know what kind of BS Karimov feed people now to justify his actions. </p>
<p>My best regards.<br />
Azjon</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hancock</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378583</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/#comment-378583</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m hopeful, but there&#039;s definitely no guarantee that increased Western pressure will cause any real changes for the lives of Uzbek children.  I think the problem is that we WANT to do something to help, whether or not we&#039;re capable of helping, and whether or not we&#039;re responsible for helping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m hopeful, but there&#8217;s definitely no guarantee that increased Western pressure will cause any real changes for the lives of Uzbek children.  I think the problem is that we WANT to do something to help, whether or not we&#8217;re capable of helping, and whether or not we&#8217;re responsible for helping.</p>
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		<title>By: Oldschool Boy</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378581</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldschool Boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Michael,

I am just saying that the ban of Uzbek cotton by Wall-Mart or anybody else will not do any good to Uzbek children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>I am just saying that the ban of Uzbek cotton by Wall-Mart or anybody else will not do any good to Uzbek children.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hancock</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378573</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/#comment-378573</guid>
		<description>@Oldschool Boy - we&#039;re getting off topic.  What does this have to do with cotton or Wal-Mart?  You&#039;re purposefully misunderstanding my comments [&quot;do not look down on children in Uzbekistan&quot;] in order to draw out off topic arguments.  I don&#039;t think anyone thinks that I &quot;look down on&quot; the children in Uzbekistan.  I&#039;m the one that says they shouldn&#039;t be used for child labor, remember?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Oldschool Boy &#8211; we&#8217;re getting off topic.  What does this have to do with cotton or Wal-Mart?  You&#8217;re purposefully misunderstanding my comments ["do not look down on children in Uzbekistan"] in order to draw out off topic arguments.  I don&#8217;t think anyone thinks that I &#8220;look down on&#8221; the children in Uzbekistan.  I&#8217;m the one that says they shouldn&#8217;t be used for child labor, remember?</p>
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		<title>By: Oldschool Boy</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378572</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldschool Boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/#comment-378572</guid>
		<description>Michael,

I did not want to turn the topic into &quot;hard man against sissies&quot; kind of discussion (neither did I mean that you were a sissy). Everybody chooses for him/herself what to like, rugby or american footbol, but I do not know why you got so upset with me describing my own life experience. Is it only because it does not really agree with your opinion? Experience vs. opinion - intersting, eh? Almost like McCain vs Obama.

Jokes aside, you can not deny that whether it is cotton or fruits and vegetables, they will still use child labor for that.

By the way, do not look down on children in Uzbekistan as if they can not work in service industry, which according to you is totally absent, which is nonsense. Do not worry, these kids learn what it is to earn for living very soon, and it is not just to save for SuperNintendo, but to feed a number of brothers and sisters and sometimes may be their own parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>I did not want to turn the topic into &#8220;hard man against sissies&#8221; kind of discussion (neither did I mean that you were a sissy). Everybody chooses for him/herself what to like, rugby or american footbol, but I do not know why you got so upset with me describing my own life experience. Is it only because it does not really agree with your opinion? Experience vs. opinion &#8211; intersting, eh? Almost like McCain vs Obama.</p>
<p>Jokes aside, you can not deny that whether it is cotton or fruits and vegetables, they will still use child labor for that.</p>
<p>By the way, do not look down on children in Uzbekistan as if they can not work in service industry, which according to you is totally absent, which is nonsense. Do not worry, these kids learn what it is to earn for living very soon, and it is not just to save for SuperNintendo, but to feed a number of brothers and sisters and sometimes may be their own parents.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hancock</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-378571</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/05/cotton-harvest-2008/#comment-378571</guid>
		<description>Good discussion so far - I&#039;m glad to such a wide variety of opinions.

@Oldschool Boy:  I find your words very disturbing.  First off, starting your statement with an attack against us &quot;lazy Americans&quot; isn&#039;t going to win any debate.  Your chief argument seems to be that child labor isn&#039;t the Gulag and serves as a kind of mini-vacation for the students while providing a valuable service to the country.

The idea that the &quot;sissies did not go there anyway&quot; gives the illusion that there&#039;s a choice for students.  Classes shut down.  If you&#039;re not well enough to work, you don&#039;t have to work, but if your teacher and classmates are in the fields, it&#039;s not really a choice.  School&#039;s out either way.

I have no doubt that the work was &quot;good for you.&quot;  Work makes people strong, and &#039;whatever doesn&#039;t kill you makes you stronger.&#039;  That&#039;s all well and good, but the concept of child labor is that it&#039;s labor not by choice.  Children are not full citizens, they can&#039;t vote, their lives are not in their own hands.  They should be in school.  If you want them to have time outdoors, send them to the normal variety of &#039;camp,&#039; the one without the adjectives in front of it.

I don&#039;t think anyone is equating child labor with antebellum slavery except for you, Oldschool Boy.  Because you don&#039;t need whips and chains to bind children - they are children.  They do what they are told.  Which is why it&#039;s such a crime to harness their energy in this way.

Of course the students are happy to miss school.  By that reasoning, do you think Turkmenbashi was right to shorten the school career in Turkmenistan to 9 years, university careers to only 2 years?  I mean, they hate their classes, right?  What possible use could they have when there&#039;s plenty of work to be done in the fields?

As for comparing teenage jobs in the states with those in Uzbekistan &amp; Co.  I don&#039;t know where to begin.  Working in the service industry is going to be hard to grasp for children from a country without a service industry.  Earning your own paycheck, getting taxes taken out, learning how pay periods work and opening your first bank account and managing your checking account... yeah, it won&#039;t put hair on chest or help with your tan, but I can see what it might give you over being forced to pick cotton with your classmates for less than a dollar a day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good discussion so far &#8211; I&#8217;m glad to such a wide variety of opinions.</p>
<p>@Oldschool Boy:  I find your words very disturbing.  First off, starting your statement with an attack against us &#8220;lazy Americans&#8221; isn&#8217;t going to win any debate.  Your chief argument seems to be that child labor isn&#8217;t the Gulag and serves as a kind of mini-vacation for the students while providing a valuable service to the country.</p>
<p>The idea that the &#8220;sissies did not go there anyway&#8221; gives the illusion that there&#8217;s a choice for students.  Classes shut down.  If you&#8217;re not well enough to work, you don&#8217;t have to work, but if your teacher and classmates are in the fields, it&#8217;s not really a choice.  School&#8217;s out either way.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that the work was &#8220;good for you.&#8221;  Work makes people strong, and &#8216;whatever doesn&#8217;t kill you makes you stronger.&#8217;  That&#8217;s all well and good, but the concept of child labor is that it&#8217;s labor not by choice.  Children are not full citizens, they can&#8217;t vote, their lives are not in their own hands.  They should be in school.  If you want them to have time outdoors, send them to the normal variety of &#8216;camp,&#8217; the one without the adjectives in front of it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone is equating child labor with antebellum slavery except for you, Oldschool Boy.  Because you don&#8217;t need whips and chains to bind children &#8211; they are children.  They do what they are told.  Which is why it&#8217;s such a crime to harness their energy in this way.</p>
<p>Of course the students are happy to miss school.  By that reasoning, do you think Turkmenbashi was right to shorten the school career in Turkmenistan to 9 years, university careers to only 2 years?  I mean, they hate their classes, right?  What possible use could they have when there&#8217;s plenty of work to be done in the fields?</p>
<p>As for comparing teenage jobs in the states with those in Uzbekistan &amp; Co.  I don&#8217;t know where to begin.  Working in the service industry is going to be hard to grasp for children from a country without a service industry.  Earning your own paycheck, getting taxes taken out, learning how pay periods work and opening your first bank account and managing your checking account&#8230; yeah, it won&#8217;t put hair on chest or help with your tan, but I can see what it might give you over being forced to pick cotton with your classmates for less than a dollar a day.</p>
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