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	<title>Comments on: Hitch on Heroin, and Other Perspectives</title>
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	<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/</link>
	<description>Central Asia News -- All Central Asia, All The Time</description>
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		<title>By: dirk</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378783</link>
		<dc:creator>dirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/#comment-378783</guid>
		<description>Positroll said...“USAID, for example, cannot help farmers grow cotton or wheat”...

That one comment says it all.So American Aid programs are not really about development its about creating and protecting  American markets &amp; goods.
No wonder the &quot;selflessness &quot;inspired reconstruction in Afghanistan is going no where.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Positroll said&#8230;“USAID, for example, cannot help farmers grow cotton or wheat”&#8230;</p>
<p>That one comment says it all.So American Aid programs are not really about development its about creating and protecting  American markets &amp; goods.<br />
No wonder the &#8220;selflessness &#8220;inspired reconstruction in Afghanistan is going no where.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378586</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/#comment-378586</guid>
		<description>I agree with Josh that dealing with individual growers would be a regulation/enforcement nightmare. But I find it hard to believe that US/NATO intelligence hasn&#039;t identified many of the mid-to-high level players in the opium system; if they haven&#039;t yet, that should be first on their list. Let the market structures remain in place, but then let it be known that the mid- and high-level folks can either sell to Afghan/NATO market with impunity and a better markup, or try to smuggling through Iran/Central Asia/Pakistan and risk getting their skulls cracked. That way, farmers feel comfortable continuing with their crop and there&#039;s no need to rewire the whole Afghan economy.

Basically, Season 3 of The Wire (which is the extent of my counternarcotics expertise). Afghanistan as Hampsterdam.

Not sure I&#039;m seriously advocating this, but NATO does need to get creative a la Major Colvin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Josh that dealing with individual growers would be a regulation/enforcement nightmare. But I find it hard to believe that US/NATO intelligence hasn&#8217;t identified many of the mid-to-high level players in the opium system; if they haven&#8217;t yet, that should be first on their list. Let the market structures remain in place, but then let it be known that the mid- and high-level folks can either sell to Afghan/NATO market with impunity and a better markup, or try to smuggling through Iran/Central Asia/Pakistan and risk getting their skulls cracked. That way, farmers feel comfortable continuing with their crop and there&#8217;s no need to rewire the whole Afghan economy.</p>
<p>Basically, Season 3 of The Wire (which is the extent of my counternarcotics expertise). Afghanistan as Hampsterdam.</p>
<p>Not sure I&#8217;m seriously advocating this, but NATO does need to get creative a la Major Colvin.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378585</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/#comment-378585</guid>
		<description>Rose oil is a good bet, though I would wonder about the size of the market for it.

I think ethanol might be a great way to utilize even poppy cultivation in Afghanistan. But again, the double problems of regulation/enforcement and security rear their heads -- they&#039;d still get more money from smugglers, so without the ability to enforce appropriate growing standards it might end up being counterproductive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rose oil is a good bet, though I would wonder about the size of the market for it.</p>
<p>I think ethanol might be a great way to utilize even poppy cultivation in Afghanistan. But again, the double problems of regulation/enforcement and security rear their heads &#8212; they&#8217;d still get more money from smugglers, so without the ability to enforce appropriate growing standards it might end up being counterproductive.</p>
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		<title>By: Positroll</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378584</link>
		<dc:creator>Positroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/#comment-378584</guid>
		<description>&quot;With roses, the spoiling issue is a concern. It takes a LONG time on the roads to get a commodity like that to market&quot;
Are you sure? The article I linked to talked about oil produced from the roses - not sending the roses to Europe etc. I seem to remember I read somethwere that you can produce the oil locally fairly easily - and rose oil doesn&#039;t spoil easily, doesn&#039;t need a lot of space either ...

BTW, what about other crops that can be transformed into biofule? Considering the problems with transporting fuel through Pakistan, Afghanistan should be the perfect place to go green in this respect ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;With roses, the spoiling issue is a concern. It takes a LONG time on the roads to get a commodity like that to market&#8221;<br />
Are you sure? The article I linked to talked about oil produced from the roses &#8211; not sending the roses to Europe etc. I seem to remember I read somethwere that you can produce the oil locally fairly easily &#8211; and rose oil doesn&#8217;t spoil easily, doesn&#8217;t need a lot of space either &#8230;</p>
<p>BTW, what about other crops that can be transformed into biofule? Considering the problems with transporting fuel through Pakistan, Afghanistan should be the perfect place to go green in this respect &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Kinder</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378580</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Kinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/#comment-378580</guid>
		<description>What this all boils down to is that purchasing opium in Afghanistan would not work for so long as the so-called &quot;War on Drugs&quot; proceeds in general.

Which begs the question of why the War on Drugs, a twentieth century phenomenon, should persist into the 21st.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What this all boils down to is that purchasing opium in Afghanistan would not work for so long as the so-called &#8220;War on Drugs&#8221; proceeds in general.</p>
<p>Which begs the question of why the War on Drugs, a twentieth century phenomenon, should persist into the 21st.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378579</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/#comment-378579</guid>
		<description>Positroll, the issue isn&#039;t buying opium. We have the money to do that (for now, at least). The issue is really how you would then fill the vacuum. I&#039;ve spoken with multiple experts on Helmand -- who have studied and been active in the province for decades -- who are justifiably frustrated at the idiotic restrictions on what the government can and cannot do.

&quot;Blowback&quot; mentions something key -- domestic politics badly distorts the mission there and elsewhere, leading to lopsided policy choices.

With roses, the spoiling issue is a concern. It takes a LONG time on the roads to get a commodity like that to market -- meanwhile, a convoy of refrigerated trucks carrying valuable cargo will be vulnerable to ambush and seizure by bandits or insurgents.

With saffron, the challeng is different: price. It would be difficult to harvest saffron on the scale needed to make a dent into opium profits without crashing the global price -- something India in particular and probably China (the two primary sources of Saffron) will vigorously oppose.

I&#039;m still of the opinion that local influence, combined with improved security, will improve the situation, and that focusing only on opium and quick ways to plug the hole won&#039;t work out in the long run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Positroll, the issue isn&#8217;t buying opium. We have the money to do that (for now, at least). The issue is really how you would then fill the vacuum. I&#8217;ve spoken with multiple experts on Helmand &#8212; who have studied and been active in the province for decades &#8212; who are justifiably frustrated at the idiotic restrictions on what the government can and cannot do.</p>
<p>&#8220;Blowback&#8221; mentions something key &#8212; domestic politics badly distorts the mission there and elsewhere, leading to lopsided policy choices.</p>
<p>With roses, the spoiling issue is a concern. It takes a LONG time on the roads to get a commodity like that to market &#8212; meanwhile, a convoy of refrigerated trucks carrying valuable cargo will be vulnerable to ambush and seizure by bandits or insurgents.</p>
<p>With saffron, the challeng is different: price. It would be difficult to harvest saffron on the scale needed to make a dent into opium profits without crashing the global price &#8212; something India in particular and probably China (the two primary sources of Saffron) will vigorously oppose.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still of the opinion that local influence, combined with improved security, will improve the situation, and that focusing only on opium and quick ways to plug the hole won&#8217;t work out in the long run.</p>
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		<title>By: Positroll</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378578</link>
		<dc:creator>Positroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/#comment-378578</guid>
		<description>&quot;USAID, for example, cannot help farmers grow cotton or wheat&quot; 
Hmm. Well, let the US army pay for the opium. Let ISAF, Japan and the Arabs pay for other crops (easier said then done, I know; but a G8 meeting could agree on something like that when they need good publicity).

&quot;Other goods like fruits that could make a decent proportion of the income opium produces would simply spoil before they get to any market.&quot; 

I think the best bet in this respect are roses http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&amp;art=1896
an saffron
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/pp060306.shtml
for international sales in combination with wheat for local markets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;USAID, for example, cannot help farmers grow cotton or wheat&#8221;<br />
Hmm. Well, let the US army pay for the opium. Let ISAF, Japan and the Arabs pay for other crops (easier said then done, I know; but a G8 meeting could agree on something like that when they need good publicity).</p>
<p>&#8220;Other goods like fruits that could make a decent proportion of the income opium produces would simply spoil before they get to any market.&#8221; </p>
<p>I think the best bet in this respect are roses <a href="http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&#038;art=1896" rel="nofollow">http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&#038;art=1896</a><br />
an saffron<br />
<a href="http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/pp060306.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/pp060306.shtml</a><br />
for international sales in combination with wheat for local markets.</p>
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		<title>By: blowback</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378577</link>
		<dc:creator>blowback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Which is more important to Americans, defeating the Taliban or increasing the profits of agri-businesses in the US? On past experience (think banana growing in the Windward Isle), big business will win out every time. Maybe bankruptcy will change the US governments attitude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which is more important to Americans, defeating the Taliban or increasing the profits of agri-businesses in the US? On past experience (think banana growing in the Windward Isle), big business will win out every time. Maybe bankruptcy will change the US governments attitude.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378576</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/#comment-378576</guid>
		<description>Woops!  Sorry Positroll.

I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a bad idea -- certainly more serious than what I discussed in the post. But I&#039;m not convinced Afghanistan has the regulatory, and definitely not the economic, environment in which that plan could work.

Again, it comes down to incentives. First off, our own government agencies are limited in what kinds of alternative crops we can provide—USAID, for example, cannot help farmers grow cotton or wheat in place of opium because of rules enacted in the Farm Bill in the U.S. So after two years, unless the farmers can get their hands on re-capitalized crop seed, they&#039;d be in trouble.

Secondly, there is the challenge of infrastructure. Heroin packs a ton of value into a very small amount of volume, and it doesn&#039;t spoil easily. Other goods like fruits that &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; make a decent proportion of the income opium produces would simply spoil before they get to any market. Khost province faces that problem all the time, and it&#039;s much closer to markets in Pakistan.

So, while I think that could possibly be a &quot;final push&quot; solution of sorts once other factors are in place, I don&#039;t think it would work right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woops!  Sorry Positroll.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a bad idea &#8212; certainly more serious than what I discussed in the post. But I&#8217;m not convinced Afghanistan has the regulatory, and definitely not the economic, environment in which that plan could work.</p>
<p>Again, it comes down to incentives. First off, our own government agencies are limited in what kinds of alternative crops we can provide—USAID, for example, cannot help farmers grow cotton or wheat in place of opium because of rules enacted in the Farm Bill in the U.S. So after two years, unless the farmers can get their hands on re-capitalized crop seed, they&#8217;d be in trouble.</p>
<p>Secondly, there is the challenge of infrastructure. Heroin packs a ton of value into a very small amount of volume, and it doesn&#8217;t spoil easily. Other goods like fruits that <i>could</i> make a decent proportion of the income opium produces would simply spoil before they get to any market. Khost province faces that problem all the time, and it&#8217;s much closer to markets in Pakistan.</p>
<p>So, while I think that could possibly be a &#8220;final push&#8221; solution of sorts once other factors are in place, I don&#8217;t think it would work right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Positroll</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/comment-page-1/#comment-378575</link>
		<dc:creator>Positroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 08:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/08/hitch-on-heroin-and-other-perspectives/#comment-378575</guid>
		<description>You put it as a question of choosing between either destroying OR buying for the foreseable future. 
What&#039;s wrong with my proposition here: 
http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/06/should-we-kill-all-poppies/#comments
of buying poppies directly from the farmers in Helmand for 2 years at 5 times market price and destroying all opium crops after that? 

As you said, growing poppies must become unattractive. If after those first 2 years you are a farmer with enough money to last your family for the next 5 years, knowing that growing poppies again might lead you to prison and your crops destroyed, wouldn&#039;t it be an easy choice to instead go for wheat, roses or whatever else grows on your soil? 

Even if this plan only eliminates 40% of the Talibans financing for the next 5 years, this would be a major blow to them. Add the weakening of all the drug gangs and war lords and it&#039;s well worth the price ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You put it as a question of choosing between either destroying OR buying for the foreseable future.<br />
What&#8217;s wrong with my proposition here:<br />
<a href="http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/06/should-we-kill-all-poppies/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2008/10/06/should-we-kill-all-poppies/#comments</a><br />
of buying poppies directly from the farmers in Helmand for 2 years at 5 times market price and destroying all opium crops after that? </p>
<p>As you said, growing poppies must become unattractive. If after those first 2 years you are a farmer with enough money to last your family for the next 5 years, knowing that growing poppies again might lead you to prison and your crops destroyed, wouldn&#8217;t it be an easy choice to instead go for wheat, roses or whatever else grows on your soil? </p>
<p>Even if this plan only eliminates 40% of the Talibans financing for the next 5 years, this would be a major blow to them. Add the weakening of all the drug gangs and war lords and it&#8217;s well worth the price &#8230;</p>
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