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	<title>Comments on: The Strange Contradictions of Andrew Exum&#8217;s Afghanistan Trip</title>
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	<description>All Central Asia, All The Time</description>
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		<title>By: Who are the experts advising our generals? We know what they’ll say. &#171; Therearenosunglasses&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381285</link>
		<dc:creator>Who are the experts advising our generals? We know what they’ll say. &#171; Therearenosunglasses&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/#comment-381285</guid>
		<description>[...] with Andrew Exum“, transcript of the Charlie Rose show, PBS, 27 July 2009 — See this analysis of Exum’s thinking by Joshua Foust, posted at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] with Andrew Exum“, transcript of the Charlie Rose show, PBS, 27 July 2009 — See this analysis of Exum’s thinking by Joshua Foust, posted at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: FDChief</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381139</link>
		<dc:creator>FDChief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What I find depressing about all of the bloviating about COIN, CT, &quot;wars on terror&quot; ad infinitum is the total lack of geopolitical vision involved.  Exum is a bobo, yes, but no bigger a bobo than most of the talking heads that pop up, like whack-a-moles, on the damn talk shows and Congressional hearings.

Bottom line: as a foreign occupier you have one way to win a guerilla war against a local adversary.  The Romans figured it out 2,000 years ago: &quot;Solitudenem facient et pacem appelant&quot;.  You make a wasteland and call it peace.  It&#039;s an indescribably vile, inhuman business and it works.  You &quot;pacify&quot; the occupied land for a generation, or more.

Short of that, show me the Western occupation that EVER worked in the long run.  Malaya is cheating, because you are depending on an enemy that consists of an ethnic minority making moron-level stupid decisions.  The reality since 1945 is that the foreigner comes, the foreigner fights, the foreigner leaves.  If the local government or what passes for a government can beat down, or buy out, or compromise with the insurgents the war ends.  Otherwise, not.

Jesus wept.  This isn&#039;t rocket science, and yet the Exums and Kagans and Wests  - not to mention the legion of uniformed policy and strategy wonks - keep circling this drain without ever starting from the simple bedrock hardscape I&#039;ve just laid down.

So I get the whole whiny and petulant thing.  If we haven&#039;t figured out that there&#039;s no there there yet, we never will.

It&#039;s worth noting that Spain had the same problem with the Netherlands some three centuries ago.  Didn&#039;t work out well for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find depressing about all of the bloviating about COIN, CT, &#8220;wars on terror&#8221; ad infinitum is the total lack of geopolitical vision involved.  Exum is a bobo, yes, but no bigger a bobo than most of the talking heads that pop up, like whack-a-moles, on the damn talk shows and Congressional hearings.</p>
<p>Bottom line: as a foreign occupier you have one way to win a guerilla war against a local adversary.  The Romans figured it out 2,000 years ago: &#8220;Solitudenem facient et pacem appelant&#8221;.  You make a wasteland and call it peace.  It&#8217;s an indescribably vile, inhuman business and it works.  You &#8220;pacify&#8221; the occupied land for a generation, or more.</p>
<p>Short of that, show me the Western occupation that EVER worked in the long run.  Malaya is cheating, because you are depending on an enemy that consists of an ethnic minority making moron-level stupid decisions.  The reality since 1945 is that the foreigner comes, the foreigner fights, the foreigner leaves.  If the local government or what passes for a government can beat down, or buy out, or compromise with the insurgents the war ends.  Otherwise, not.</p>
<p>Jesus wept.  This isn&#8217;t rocket science, and yet the Exums and Kagans and Wests  &#8211; not to mention the legion of uniformed policy and strategy wonks &#8211; keep circling this drain without ever starting from the simple bedrock hardscape I&#8217;ve just laid down.</p>
<p>So I get the whole whiny and petulant thing.  If we haven&#8217;t figured out that there&#8217;s no there there yet, we never will.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth noting that Spain had the same problem with the Netherlands some three centuries ago.  Didn&#8217;t work out well for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kung.Fu.Panda</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381117</link>
		<dc:creator>Kung.Fu.Panda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/#comment-381117</guid>
		<description>The &quot;war&quot; in Afghanistan was over a long time ago...about the time that Karzai was voted in.  We achieved the core goals...overthrow the Taliban for supporting AQ, destroy the great bulk of in country insurgent infrastructure (i.e. destroying the cave networks we built for the mujahedeen) and fostered the establishment of an elected government.  That&#039;s all that we could have expected.  From then on, Afghanistan should have been left to itself.  &quot;Nation-building&quot; never works...when you have a corrupt and in some cases indefensible government (in the form of the Karzai administration), ethnic groups that are habituated to fighting each other regularly, and a non-existent national military and law enforcement structure there is nothing to reconstruct.

Recent efforts to portray the country as an Islamic &quot;domino&quot; where the fall of the Karzai government would result in a wave of regional   destabilization and jihadi ascendance are a farcical re-hash of Vietnam-era propaganda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;war&#8221; in Afghanistan was over a long time ago&#8230;about the time that Karzai was voted in.  We achieved the core goals&#8230;overthrow the Taliban for supporting AQ, destroy the great bulk of in country insurgent infrastructure (i.e. destroying the cave networks we built for the mujahedeen) and fostered the establishment of an elected government.  That&#8217;s all that we could have expected.  From then on, Afghanistan should have been left to itself.  &#8220;Nation-building&#8221; never works&#8230;when you have a corrupt and in some cases indefensible government (in the form of the Karzai administration), ethnic groups that are habituated to fighting each other regularly, and a non-existent national military and law enforcement structure there is nothing to reconstruct.</p>
<p>Recent efforts to portray the country as an Islamic &#8220;domino&#8221; where the fall of the Karzai government would result in a wave of regional   destabilization and jihadi ascendance are a farcical re-hash of Vietnam-era propaganda.</p>
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		<title>By: Why should the US pull all military forces from Afghanistan ASAP &#171; Leave Afghanistan Now</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381116</link>
		<dc:creator>Why should the US pull all military forces from Afghanistan ASAP &#171; Leave Afghanistan Now</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/#comment-381116</guid>
		<description>[...] Source:   The Strange Contradictions of Andrew Exum’s Afghanistan Trip [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Source:   The Strange Contradictions of Andrew Exum’s Afghanistan Trip [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Who are the experts advising our generals? We know what they&#8217;ll say. &#171; Fabius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381113</link>
		<dc:creator>Who are the experts advising our generals? We know what they&#8217;ll say. &#171; Fabius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/#comment-381113</guid>
		<description>[...] with Andrew Exum&#8220;, transcript of the Charlie Rose show, PBS, 27 July 2009 &#8212; See this analysis of Exum&#8217;s thinking by Joshua Foust, posted at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] with Andrew Exum&#8220;, transcript of the Charlie Rose show, PBS, 27 July 2009 &#8212; See this analysis of Exum&#8217;s thinking by Joshua Foust, posted at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: M Shannon</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381088</link>
		<dc:creator>M Shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think the situation is obvious. Petreaus took credit for improvement in Iraq as a result of his very clever new doctrine.  Logically it  has to be applied in Afghanistan because it&#039;s THE way to deal with insurgencies.  The problem (even if you think it&#039;s what worked in Iraq and I don&#039;t) is that there are not enough troops to do pop-centric COIN in Afghanistan because NATO isn&#039;t on board and the ANSF are largely rubbish. 

As this unravels the public supporters of COIN will start to hedge so that they have skeptical comments on record so as to not go down with the ship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the situation is obvious. Petreaus took credit for improvement in Iraq as a result of his very clever new doctrine.  Logically it  has to be applied in Afghanistan because it&#8217;s THE way to deal with insurgencies.  The problem (even if you think it&#8217;s what worked in Iraq and I don&#8217;t) is that there are not enough troops to do pop-centric COIN in Afghanistan because NATO isn&#8217;t on board and the ANSF are largely rubbish. </p>
<p>As this unravels the public supporters of COIN will start to hedge so that they have skeptical comments on record so as to not go down with the ship.</p>
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		<title>By: Schmedlap</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381070</link>
		<dc:creator>Schmedlap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That post was a great discussion.

In regard to &quot;measuring&quot; fear and intimidation, Nathan and Bruce point out two of the factors that we tracked in Iraq: night letters and assassinations (as opposed to indiscriminate killing). Also, kidnappings, and VCDs of assassinations and torture distributed to the populace. Specific threats are another, though measuring these can be difficult. If the threats are effective enough, the intimidated parties will never tell you about the threat because they&#039;re too scared. However, we found the fear and intimidation metrics in Iraq (in 2007) to be a good leading indicator. When the fear and intimidation dropped, the other &quot;metrics&quot; such as IEDs found/exploded, direct fire attacks, and indirect fire attacks soon dropped as well.

Unfortunately, fear and intimidation metrics cannot be measured very well without very good human intelligence collection, a solid understanding of the populace, and some historical data to put it in context. D&#039;oh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That post was a great discussion.</p>
<p>In regard to &#8220;measuring&#8221; fear and intimidation, Nathan and Bruce point out two of the factors that we tracked in Iraq: night letters and assassinations (as opposed to indiscriminate killing). Also, kidnappings, and VCDs of assassinations and torture distributed to the populace. Specific threats are another, though measuring these can be difficult. If the threats are effective enough, the intimidated parties will never tell you about the threat because they&#8217;re too scared. However, we found the fear and intimidation metrics in Iraq (in 2007) to be a good leading indicator. When the fear and intimidation dropped, the other &#8220;metrics&#8221; such as IEDs found/exploded, direct fire attacks, and indirect fire attacks soon dropped as well.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, fear and intimidation metrics cannot be measured very well without very good human intelligence collection, a solid understanding of the populace, and some historical data to put it in context. D&#8217;oh!</p>
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		<title>By: Toryalay Shirzay</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381069</link>
		<dc:creator>Toryalay Shirzay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Fnord is right on the money.I still don&#039;t understand why the ultra-smart American superpower went into Afghanistan and let most Taleban and their leaders get away and go to their sanctuaries unscathed not to mention Alqaeda??!!Hey experts out there,come out and try to give some honest answers here,eh.
Joshua Foust is trying and he is mostly right ;the picture is not complete though,And BruceR  points are well made.The Taleban are not very visible,but they are like the invisible man.Intimidation,fear,secret visits after hours and many other tactics are real threats Taleban use daily to defeat the coalition;on the other hand,counter-operations to above threats is hardly visible and one wonders why??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fnord is right on the money.I still don&#8217;t understand why the ultra-smart American superpower went into Afghanistan and let most Taleban and their leaders get away and go to their sanctuaries unscathed not to mention Alqaeda??!!Hey experts out there,come out and try to give some honest answers here,eh.<br />
Joshua Foust is trying and he is mostly right ;the picture is not complete though,And BruceR  points are well made.The Taleban are not very visible,but they are like the invisible man.Intimidation,fear,secret visits after hours and many other tactics are real threats Taleban use daily to defeat the coalition;on the other hand,counter-operations to above threats is hardly visible and one wonders why??</p>
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		<title>By: el-belle</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381066</link>
		<dc:creator>el-belle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m also curious at the difference between Ex&#039;s post-review comments, and those of Anthony Cordesman (http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-07-29-voa61.cfm and http://csis.org/publication/winning-afghanistan-summary-remarks), given that prior to the trip there didnt seem to be that much distance between them (for example looking at the recommendations in Triage and in http://csis.org/files/publication/090527_Cordesman_Winning%20Afgha_web.pdf while certainly not identical, I think there&#039;s a clear parallel in the way the threat is articulated and the general areas that most need improvement).  Where they further apart to begin with then I&#039;m seeing, or did something about the trip change (either or both of) their views?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m also curious at the difference between Ex&#8217;s post-review comments, and those of Anthony Cordesman (<a href="http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-07-29-voa61.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-07-29-voa61.cfm</a> and <a href="http://csis.org/publication/winning-afghanistan-summary-remarks" rel="nofollow">http://csis.org/publication/winning-afghanistan-summary-remarks</a>), given that prior to the trip there didnt seem to be that much distance between them (for example looking at the recommendations in Triage and in <a href="http://csis.org/files/publication/090527_Cordesman_Winning%20Afgha_web.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://csis.org/files/publication/090527_Cordesman_Winning%20Afgha_web.pdf</a> while certainly not identical, I think there&#8217;s a clear parallel in the way the threat is articulated and the general areas that most need improvement).  Where they further apart to begin with then I&#8217;m seeing, or did something about the trip change (either or both of) their views?</p>
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		<title>By: David M</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/07/29/the-strange-contradictions-of-andrew-exums-afghanistan-trip/comment-page-1/#comment-381065</link>
		<dc:creator>David M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the blog post &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thunderrun.us/2009/07/from-front-07302009.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;From the Front: 07/30/2009 &lt;/a&gt; News and Personal dispatches from the front and the home front.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the blog post <a href="http://www.thunderrun.us/2009/07/from-front-07302009.html" rel="nofollow">From the Front: 07/30/2009 </a> News and Personal dispatches from the front and the home front.</p>
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