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	<title>Comments on: A Children&#8217;s Treasury of Worthless Experts</title>
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		<title>By: A Children’s Treasury of Worthless Experts — Registan.net &#171; The Image</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381447</link>
		<dc:creator>A Children’s Treasury of Worthless Experts — Registan.net &#171; The Image</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] via A Children’s Treasury of Worthless Experts — Registan.net. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] via A Children’s Treasury of Worthless Experts — Registan.net. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shlok Vaidya&#8217;s Thinking &#187; Seth Jones Gets Slapped Around</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381435</link>
		<dc:creator>Shlok Vaidya&#8217;s Thinking &#187; Seth Jones Gets Slapped Around</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9087#comment-381435</guid>
		<description>[...] Joshua Foust. Nice. My biggest problem with Seth Jones isn’t his Big Ideas about Afghanistan (which are mostly inarguable), but that he blithely repeats vague platitudes with no indication about how to implement them. He did this when he was defending Hamid Karzai, and he did that when he timelined the post-2001 war. Now he’s in the WSJ, saying all we need are arbakai and local governance councils. And yes we do—if we reform the constitution, isolate Kabul, completely rework the entire government’s approach to nation-building, and accept all that local corruption he so strongly condemned in his book. And if we somehow make arbakai agents of security instead of insecurity, which is unlikely outside of Loya Paktiya. But he wrote a book, so listen to him! [Update: Christian Bleuer notices something I forgot in all my annoyance: Jones doesn&#039;t even understand the field he&#039;s writing off with a single sentence. And he&#039;s the RAND expert!]   Subscribe to comments  Comment &#124; Trackback &#124;   Tags: smart [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Joshua Foust. Nice. My biggest problem with Seth Jones isn’t his Big Ideas about Afghanistan (which are mostly inarguable), but that he blithely repeats vague platitudes with no indication about how to implement them. He did this when he was defending Hamid Karzai, and he did that when he timelined the post-2001 war. Now he’s in the WSJ, saying all we need are arbakai and local governance councils. And yes we do—if we reform the constitution, isolate Kabul, completely rework the entire government’s approach to nation-building, and accept all that local corruption he so strongly condemned in his book. And if we somehow make arbakai agents of security instead of insecurity, which is unlikely outside of Loya Paktiya. But he wrote a book, so listen to him! [Update: Christian Bleuer notices something I forgot in all my annoyance: Jones doesn&#39;t even understand the field he&#39;s writing off with a single sentence. And he&#39;s the RAND expert!]   Subscribe to comments  Comment | Trackback |   Tags: smart [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ken</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381371</link>
		<dc:creator>ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9087#comment-381371</guid>
		<description>Speaking to what Gulliver said, it&#039;s the old adage; all politics is local.

You cannot over estimate the power of domestic (US) political concerns. You did live through the Bush Administration, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking to what Gulliver said, it&#8217;s the old adage; all politics is local.</p>
<p>You cannot over estimate the power of domestic (US) political concerns. You did live through the Bush Administration, right?</p>
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		<title>By: anand</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381344</link>
		<dc:creator>anand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9087#comment-381344</guid>
		<description>Joshua Foust is an &quot;Afghan expert&quot; in my book. So is Msatwel.

I do think Kilcullen is a little better than Foust gives him credit for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua Foust is an &#8220;Afghan expert&#8221; in my book. So is Msatwel.</p>
<p>I do think Kilcullen is a little better than Foust gives him credit for.</p>
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		<title>By: ML</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381293</link>
		<dc:creator>ML</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9087#comment-381293</guid>
		<description>Man, shit&#039;s complicated. How are you guys so wordy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, shit&#8217;s complicated. How are you guys so wordy?</p>
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		<title>By: Gulliver</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381290</link>
		<dc:creator>Gulliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9087#comment-381290</guid>
		<description>Josh -- I don&#039;t think you&#039;re characterizing Kilcullen&#039;s &quot;prediction&quot; fairly. I was at that event, and I heard the context. There wasn&#039;t any sense of &quot;it&#039;s going to be over by such-and-such time&quot; so much as &quot;if we don&#039;t make sufficient progress in the next two years to turn over a credible state and security apparatus to the Afghans, then we&#039;ll likely just declare victory and go home.&quot; 

I don&#039;t think this is apocalyptic, and I don&#039;t think it&#039;s arbitrary. It seems to me a considered assessment of likely political realities. Do you think the President is going to imperil his re-election campaign by continually banging his head against the Afghan wall if no progress is evident over the next 24 months?

More importantly, how long &lt;em&gt;do you&lt;/em&gt; think the status quo is viable? I appreciate that you believe there are changes that can be made to the U.S. approach that would increase our chances of &quot;success&quot;; assuming they&#039;re not made, how long can/will this go on?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh &#8212; I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re characterizing Kilcullen&#8217;s &#8220;prediction&#8221; fairly. I was at that event, and I heard the context. There wasn&#8217;t any sense of &#8220;it&#8217;s going to be over by such-and-such time&#8221; so much as &#8220;if we don&#8217;t make sufficient progress in the next two years to turn over a credible state and security apparatus to the Afghans, then we&#8217;ll likely just declare victory and go home.&#8221; </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this is apocalyptic, and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s arbitrary. It seems to me a considered assessment of likely political realities. Do you think the President is going to imperil his re-election campaign by continually banging his head against the Afghan wall if no progress is evident over the next 24 months?</p>
<p>More importantly, how long <em>do you</em> think the status quo is viable? I appreciate that you believe there are changes that can be made to the U.S. approach that would increase our chances of &#8220;success&#8221;; assuming they&#8217;re not made, how long can/will this go on?</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381282</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I feel I should clarify about the timelines: I don&#039;t think we have an unlimited amount of time to dilly dally about without accomplishing much. My problem is &lt;i&gt;why those numbers&lt;/i&gt;? Why only six months in Pakistan? Why two years in Afghanistan, when CJCS Mullen says one? I can&#039;t speak to his work in Timor, but in Afghanistan and Pakistan specifically, where is his record to support accepting such arbitrary guestimation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel I should clarify about the timelines: I don&#8217;t think we have an unlimited amount of time to dilly dally about without accomplishing much. My problem is <i>why those numbers</i>? Why only six months in Pakistan? Why two years in Afghanistan, when CJCS Mullen says one? I can&#8217;t speak to his work in Timor, but in Afghanistan and Pakistan specifically, where is his record to support accepting such arbitrary guestimation?</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381281</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9087#comment-381281</guid>
		<description>ASOP and IDLG are fine ideas. Jones doesn&#039;t mention them, just that locals know best. Well, okay—yes, we get that, thanks to Tip O&#039;Neill. Where&#039;s the insight into how that works in Afghanistan? Jones tells us local leaders know their areas best. Yes, they really do, and if you read a bit closer you&#039;ll see I didn&#039;t complain about that (and in fact agreed with it). My complaint is about him being vague and not terribly informed—something your comments here don&#039;t really address, since they seem more concerned with accusing me of being petty.

And I&#039;ve read Kilcullen&#039;s earlier work. He&#039;s been beating this horse for a long time on Afghanistan, since at least 2005. That doesn&#039;t make him any more worth listening to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ASOP and IDLG are fine ideas. Jones doesn&#8217;t mention them, just that locals know best. Well, okay—yes, we get that, thanks to Tip O&#8217;Neill. Where&#8217;s the insight into how that works in Afghanistan? Jones tells us local leaders know their areas best. Yes, they really do, and if you read a bit closer you&#8217;ll see I didn&#8217;t complain about that (and in fact agreed with it). My complaint is about him being vague and not terribly informed—something your comments here don&#8217;t really address, since they seem more concerned with accusing me of being petty.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;ve read Kilcullen&#8217;s earlier work. He&#8217;s been beating this horse for a long time on Afghanistan, since at least 2005. That doesn&#8217;t make him any more worth listening to.</p>
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		<title>By: Njarl</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381277</link>
		<dc:creator>Njarl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9087#comment-381277</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reply. 

On the Times article, it&#039;s not an entertainment article - the Times website simply categorises all book reviews and book excerpts, regardless of whether they are international relations or celebrity gossip, under the &#039;Arts and entertainment&#039; section. I hate lazy Lawrence of Arabia comparisons as much as the next person, but I think the article is as good as an account as we&#039;re going to get in public of what happened. It&#039;s certainly better than criticism based on unconfirmed suspicions. As for personal contacts, everyone who I have worked with who knew him had nothing but praise for him. 

I know you&#039;ve mentioned IDLG and ASOP several times here. That&#039;s why I was surprised that you seemed to think that local governance councils and arbakai are diametrically opposed to the Afghan government&#039;s strategy and the international nation building approach, rather than being an integral and growing part of it. Seth&#039;s article was vague on the specifics, but no more so than most op-eds - and I think that&#039;s a reflection of what the newspaper business wants, rather than on Seth&#039;s abilities. As you said yourself, nuts and bolts articles just aren&#039;t what they&#039;re after. 

As for Kilcullen, I&#039;m afraid I just cannot agree that he is not far removed from the likes of Friedman. His career is based on experience in the field and published work, not on soundbites, and he had high-level advisory positions long before he started focusing on Afghanistan. There are a number of issues on which I disagree with him, but as I said above, if you think we have an unlimited time to turn the situation round - rather than a matter of a couple of years - then I&#039;d like to hear why.   

Since you ask, I&#039;ve been a reader since it was Nathan&#039;s Central Asia roundup on Winds of Change, and seriously appreciate all the effort the writers have put in since then. I&#039;d just like to see some more constructive debate, and less personal attacks, than we have had recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply. </p>
<p>On the Times article, it&#8217;s not an entertainment article &#8211; the Times website simply categorises all book reviews and book excerpts, regardless of whether they are international relations or celebrity gossip, under the &#8216;Arts and entertainment&#8217; section. I hate lazy Lawrence of Arabia comparisons as much as the next person, but I think the article is as good as an account as we&#8217;re going to get in public of what happened. It&#8217;s certainly better than criticism based on unconfirmed suspicions. As for personal contacts, everyone who I have worked with who knew him had nothing but praise for him. </p>
<p>I know you&#8217;ve mentioned IDLG and ASOP several times here. That&#8217;s why I was surprised that you seemed to think that local governance councils and arbakai are diametrically opposed to the Afghan government&#8217;s strategy and the international nation building approach, rather than being an integral and growing part of it. Seth&#8217;s article was vague on the specifics, but no more so than most op-eds &#8211; and I think that&#8217;s a reflection of what the newspaper business wants, rather than on Seth&#8217;s abilities. As you said yourself, nuts and bolts articles just aren&#8217;t what they&#8217;re after. </p>
<p>As for Kilcullen, I&#8217;m afraid I just cannot agree that he is not far removed from the likes of Friedman. His career is based on experience in the field and published work, not on soundbites, and he had high-level advisory positions long before he started focusing on Afghanistan. There are a number of issues on which I disagree with him, but as I said above, if you think we have an unlimited time to turn the situation round &#8211; rather than a matter of a couple of years &#8211; then I&#8217;d like to hear why.   </p>
<p>Since you ask, I&#8217;ve been a reader since it was Nathan&#8217;s Central Asia roundup on Winds of Change, and seriously appreciate all the effort the writers have put in since then. I&#8217;d just like to see some more constructive debate, and less personal attacks, than we have had recently.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/09/a-childrens-treasury-of-worthless-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-381276</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9087#comment-381276</guid>
		<description>Njarl,

I&#039;ve been unable to get any British or Irish government types to respond to queries either about Musa Qala or Semple&#039;s activities in Helmand. They just won&#039;t answer questions. That is very suspicious to me, and tells me there is more there they don&#039;t want to get out. Your defense of Semple amounts to an entertainment column comparing him to Lawrence of Arabia and the British government complaining about Afghan hypocrisy? Give me a break.

I&#039;m quite aware of the IDLG and ASOP (and have written about them repeatedly here, if you&#039;re such a long time reader). That doesn&#039;t make Jones insightful, useful, or any less frustrating for his generic and misleading advice.

My discussion of Kilcullen relates specifically to his work in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where he has indeed leveraged a career of making apocalyptic pronouncements and getting high profile advisory and writing gigs out of it. He&#039;s not quite a Tom Friedman about it, but he&#039;s close. The rest of his work is immaterial to this point—on these specific issues we cover here, he&#039;s just wrong, starting with the ridiculous roads=peace meme last year and ending with how many six months Pakistan might have left before doomsday.

Lastly, if you are such a long time reader, then you know that I&#039;ve been mixing alternate strategies, new engagement tactics, and different frameworks in along with all the criticism—for years. Like, since 2006, back when Iraq meant no one cared about Afghanistan. If you&#039;re going to call yourself as a long time reader, then maybe actually read this site for a long time first before complaining about what&#039;s not there.

Am I in a foul mood? Why yes, yes I am. It&#039;s nothing personal.

And seriously, if you want coverage of something we miss here, you can either a) email one of us, or b) write about it yourself. I&#039;m not superhuman, I have a day job that is not writing this blog, and I also like to sometimes leave my house. Don&#039;t look to me for everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Njarl,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been unable to get any British or Irish government types to respond to queries either about Musa Qala or Semple&#8217;s activities in Helmand. They just won&#8217;t answer questions. That is very suspicious to me, and tells me there is more there they don&#8217;t want to get out. Your defense of Semple amounts to an entertainment column comparing him to Lawrence of Arabia and the British government complaining about Afghan hypocrisy? Give me a break.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m quite aware of the IDLG and ASOP (and have written about them repeatedly here, if you&#8217;re such a long time reader). That doesn&#8217;t make Jones insightful, useful, or any less frustrating for his generic and misleading advice.</p>
<p>My discussion of Kilcullen relates specifically to his work in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where he has indeed leveraged a career of making apocalyptic pronouncements and getting high profile advisory and writing gigs out of it. He&#8217;s not quite a Tom Friedman about it, but he&#8217;s close. The rest of his work is immaterial to this point—on these specific issues we cover here, he&#8217;s just wrong, starting with the ridiculous roads=peace meme last year and ending with how many six months Pakistan might have left before doomsday.</p>
<p>Lastly, if you are such a long time reader, then you know that I&#8217;ve been mixing alternate strategies, new engagement tactics, and different frameworks in along with all the criticism—for years. Like, since 2006, back when Iraq meant no one cared about Afghanistan. If you&#8217;re going to call yourself as a long time reader, then maybe actually read this site for a long time first before complaining about what&#8217;s not there.</p>
<p>Am I in a foul mood? Why yes, yes I am. It&#8217;s nothing personal.</p>
<p>And seriously, if you want coverage of something we miss here, you can either a) email one of us, or b) write about it yourself. I&#8217;m not superhuman, I have a day job that is not writing this blog, and I also like to sometimes leave my house. Don&#8217;t look to me for everything.</p>
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