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	<title>Comments on: The Foxing of the Generals</title>
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	<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/17/the-foxing-of-the-generals/</link>
	<description>All Central Asia, All The Time</description>
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		<title>By: AJK</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/17/the-foxing-of-the-generals/comment-page-1/#comment-381497</link>
		<dc:creator>AJK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9220#comment-381497</guid>
		<description>I agree with the sentiment that counterinsurgency is more political than military, but the target of &quot;soft power&quot; ought to be Afghanistan (and Pakistan and Uzbekistan and...), not Washington DC. This seems to go back to the same problems as interpreters, ISAF&#039;s twitter, etc. Is the goal of the war to placate the media or solve Afghanistan&#039;s problems? I don&#039;t mean this in a &quot;Stay The Course/disengagement is unpatriotic&quot; sort of way, but the different jobs require different tools and some sort of earnestness would be nice.

And I would say NATO is very suited for counterinsurgency: I&#039;m convinced (but have yet to do research on the subject) that Canadian/British/German/Dutch Central/West Asian Muslims would give the Afghanistanis they interact with more peace of mind than Christians...throws the whole &quot;crusade&quot; propoganda out of whack, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the sentiment that counterinsurgency is more political than military, but the target of &#8220;soft power&#8221; ought to be Afghanistan (and Pakistan and Uzbekistan and&#8230;), not Washington DC. This seems to go back to the same problems as interpreters, ISAF&#8217;s twitter, etc. Is the goal of the war to placate the media or solve Afghanistan&#8217;s problems? I don&#8217;t mean this in a &#8220;Stay The Course/disengagement is unpatriotic&#8221; sort of way, but the different jobs require different tools and some sort of earnestness would be nice.</p>
<p>And I would say NATO is very suited for counterinsurgency: I&#8217;m convinced (but have yet to do research on the subject) that Canadian/British/German/Dutch Central/West Asian Muslims would give the Afghanistanis they interact with more peace of mind than Christians&#8230;throws the whole &#8220;crusade&#8221; propoganda out of whack, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/17/the-foxing-of-the-generals/comment-page-1/#comment-381494</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9220#comment-381494</guid>
		<description>Fabius, my surprise and anger here comes, as Anthony noted, that McKiernan of all the generals was fired for not being media savvy. Considering the many generals we&#039;ve had who are A-1 screw ups responsible for the deaths of thousands, that McKiernan alone got singled out for firing—especially in the way he was—is just galling.

Having a pair of generals scheming their way into new stars back in the Pentagon at the expense of the man running the war may be normal, but that doesn&#039;t make any less disappointing to see. As far as I&#039;m concerned the continuity between McKiernan and McChrystal—right down to issuing the same directives and having the same ideas and requests—speaks to just how ridiculous this was. Just as McKiernan not getting the people he wanted because he didn&#039;t have the right friends, but now McChrystal gets everything his heart desires (except maybe more troops).

Seriously? None of you think that&#039;s a ridiculous double standard?

The issue about NATO is, to my mind, more worrying, but also less clear. There is an implicit rebuke of NATO in McChrystal&#039;s appointment, and it goes against the meta-narrative of Barack Obama&#039;s administration so far. I don&#039;t know what it could mean yet, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fabius, my surprise and anger here comes, as Anthony noted, that McKiernan of all the generals was fired for not being media savvy. Considering the many generals we&#8217;ve had who are A-1 screw ups responsible for the deaths of thousands, that McKiernan alone got singled out for firing—especially in the way he was—is just galling.</p>
<p>Having a pair of generals scheming their way into new stars back in the Pentagon at the expense of the man running the war may be normal, but that doesn&#8217;t make any less disappointing to see. As far as I&#8217;m concerned the continuity between McKiernan and McChrystal—right down to issuing the same directives and having the same ideas and requests—speaks to just how ridiculous this was. Just as McKiernan not getting the people he wanted because he didn&#8217;t have the right friends, but now McChrystal gets everything his heart desires (except maybe more troops).</p>
<p>Seriously? None of you think that&#8217;s a ridiculous double standard?</p>
<p>The issue about NATO is, to my mind, more worrying, but also less clear. There is an implicit rebuke of NATO in McChrystal&#8217;s appointment, and it goes against the meta-narrative of Barack Obama&#8217;s administration so far. I don&#8217;t know what it could mean yet, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/17/the-foxing-of-the-generals/comment-page-1/#comment-381493</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9220#comment-381493</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid I think you are over-egging the pudding a touch here, Josh.

To the extent that there is a degree of injustice over General McKiernan&#039;s departure, it seems to me that it probably rests not so much in the fact that he was replaced as in the fact that he was sacked in an environment where large numbers of less capable officers over the last few years have been allowed to continue to advance up the career ladder regardless. In a way it&#039;s sadly poetic that the same system that has allowed non-entities to advance up the ranks on the back of bureaucratic inertia resulted in General McKiernan being sacked because bureacratic imperatives meant that there was nowhere else in the career structure for him to go... 

I agree with other commenters that the NATO issue probably deserves a greater prominence than you allow it. I can also understand the desire of those in Washington to get their very best people in place ASAP, regardless of the issue of a general&#039;s ability to schmooze.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid I think you are over-egging the pudding a touch here, Josh.</p>
<p>To the extent that there is a degree of injustice over General McKiernan&#8217;s departure, it seems to me that it probably rests not so much in the fact that he was replaced as in the fact that he was sacked in an environment where large numbers of less capable officers over the last few years have been allowed to continue to advance up the career ladder regardless. In a way it&#8217;s sadly poetic that the same system that has allowed non-entities to advance up the ranks on the back of bureaucratic inertia resulted in General McKiernan being sacked because bureacratic imperatives meant that there was nowhere else in the career structure for him to go&#8230; </p>
<p>I agree with other commenters that the NATO issue probably deserves a greater prominence than you allow it. I can also understand the desire of those in Washington to get their very best people in place ASAP, regardless of the issue of a general&#8217;s ability to schmooze.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Pampinella</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/17/the-foxing-of-the-generals/comment-page-1/#comment-381492</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Pampinella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9220#comment-381492</guid>
		<description>Agreed with FM but on a different note. If counterinsurgency is more political than military, then propaganda is power, and media savvy is a fundamental necessity. If McKiernan couldn&#039;t get that right, then it was wise to remove him. 

Yes, Gates/Mullen want Nagl types, but that&#039;s because Nagl argues that success in counterinsurgency requires the creation of a learning organization that can reflexively adapt and learn from its mistakes. Your blog argues much the same point.

Lastly, NATO is simply not suited for counterinsurgency, and most of the Alliance doesn&#039;t want to get its hands dirty (they want to do peacekeeping), save for the British, Aussies, Dutch, and Canadians. I imagine they see the &#039;Americanization&#039; of the war as overdue, considering we&#039;ve always seen it as a secondary theater. We&#039;re the superpower, we always have to take the initial risks and NATO will then follow. Same thing happened in Bosnia in the 1990s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed with FM but on a different note. If counterinsurgency is more political than military, then propaganda is power, and media savvy is a fundamental necessity. If McKiernan couldn&#8217;t get that right, then it was wise to remove him. </p>
<p>Yes, Gates/Mullen want Nagl types, but that&#8217;s because Nagl argues that success in counterinsurgency requires the creation of a learning organization that can reflexively adapt and learn from its mistakes. Your blog argues much the same point.</p>
<p>Lastly, NATO is simply not suited for counterinsurgency, and most of the Alliance doesn&#8217;t want to get its hands dirty (they want to do peacekeeping), save for the British, Aussies, Dutch, and Canadians. I imagine they see the &#8216;Americanization&#8217; of the war as overdue, considering we&#8217;ve always seen it as a secondary theater. We&#8217;re the superpower, we always have to take the initial risks and NATO will then follow. Same thing happened in Bosnia in the 1990s.</p>
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		<title>By: Bones</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/17/the-foxing-of-the-generals/comment-page-1/#comment-381490</link>
		<dc:creator>Bones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9220#comment-381490</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re giving too little credit to the article&#039;s insistence on Gates and Mullen deciding they needed a commander with the skills to prevent Afghanistan from becoming a political issue. If there really were rumblings going on in the Pentagon, how long before that sniping leaked to the Hill and McKeirnan found himself the target of paranoid delusions (aka &#039;death panels&#039;) invented just to score points in the real long war back DC? Given the focus on contentious domestic issues, and what that will do for the population&#039;s concern and attention regarding Afghanistan, there is something to be said for having a leader with the absolute full confidence of the Pentagon who who be able to help prevent Afghanistan from becoming a political football.

Also, considering the environment in Afghanistan, must the world &quot;politician&quot; necessarily be preceded by &quot;craven&quot;? I guess you have little to no respect for those skills (Does Nagl rank up with McClellan for you, sheesh), but it seems that they&#039;re even more important in this sort of a war.  Diplomacy and War is full of stories of competent officials who were perceived to  lack Washington&#039;s full cachet, and were treated thusly when foreign powers dealt with them not as the real center of american power.  It&#039;s not fair to men serving underneath to suffer the consequences while a more diplomatic solution is hammered out. 

There&#039;s also hints of a disagreement between the Pentagon and McKeirnan on the proper place of NATO and how to organize ISAF, which seems like a serious issue, but the article doesn&#039;t put enough meat on that to debate seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re giving too little credit to the article&#8217;s insistence on Gates and Mullen deciding they needed a commander with the skills to prevent Afghanistan from becoming a political issue. If there really were rumblings going on in the Pentagon, how long before that sniping leaked to the Hill and McKeirnan found himself the target of paranoid delusions (aka &#8216;death panels&#8217;) invented just to score points in the real long war back DC? Given the focus on contentious domestic issues, and what that will do for the population&#8217;s concern and attention regarding Afghanistan, there is something to be said for having a leader with the absolute full confidence of the Pentagon who who be able to help prevent Afghanistan from becoming a political football.</p>
<p>Also, considering the environment in Afghanistan, must the world &#8220;politician&#8221; necessarily be preceded by &#8220;craven&#8221;? I guess you have little to no respect for those skills (Does Nagl rank up with McClellan for you, sheesh), but it seems that they&#8217;re even more important in this sort of a war.  Diplomacy and War is full of stories of competent officials who were perceived to  lack Washington&#8217;s full cachet, and were treated thusly when foreign powers dealt with them not as the real center of american power.  It&#8217;s not fair to men serving underneath to suffer the consequences while a more diplomatic solution is hammered out. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s also hints of a disagreement between the Pentagon and McKeirnan on the proper place of NATO and how to organize ISAF, which seems like a serious issue, but the article doesn&#8217;t put enough meat on that to debate seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/17/the-foxing-of-the-generals/comment-page-1/#comment-381486</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Perhaps you mis-interpret this.  For several generations US generals have been selected to a large extent for their media skills and politically flexibility.  It&#039;s what the &quot;system&quot; values.

As the pressure increases to show results in Afghanistan, senior DoD leaders seek generals with these essential and critical skills  (it&#039;s what they value).  McKiernan just didn&#039;t make the grade.

This is nothing new.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you mis-interpret this.  For several generations US generals have been selected to a large extent for their media skills and politically flexibility.  It&#8217;s what the &#8220;system&#8221; values.</p>
<p>As the pressure increases to show results in Afghanistan, senior DoD leaders seek generals with these essential and critical skills  (it&#8217;s what they value).  McKiernan just didn&#8217;t make the grade.</p>
<p>This is nothing new.</p>
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