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	<title>Comments on: We&#8217;re not ready to talk yet</title>
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	<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/</link>
	<description>Central Asia News -- All Central Asia, All The Time</description>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-381669</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9267#comment-381669</guid>
		<description>Walt&#039;s premise is not &quot;accusing people of not talking about&quot; his six points--at least not in the FP blog posts that people have discussed recently. If he doesn&#039;t make that accusation, are you saying that Walt is not constructing a straw man?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walt&#8217;s premise is not &#8220;accusing people of not talking about&#8221; his six points&#8211;at least not in the FP blog posts that people have discussed recently. If he doesn&#8217;t make that accusation, are you saying that Walt is not constructing a straw man?</p>
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		<title>By: David M</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-381667</link>
		<dc:creator>David M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9267#comment-381667</guid>
		<description>The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the blog post &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thunderrun.us/2009/08/from-front-08212009.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;From the Front: 08/21/2009 &lt;/a&gt; News and Personal dispatches from the front and the home front.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the blog post <a href="http://www.thunderrun.us/2009/08/from-front-08212009.html" rel="nofollow">From the Front: 08/21/2009 </a> News and Personal dispatches from the front and the home front.</p>
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		<title>By: chris seiple</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-381665</link>
		<dc:creator>chris seiple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9267#comment-381665</guid>
		<description>Joshua,

Thanks very much for your dose of humble reality...I couldn&#039;t agree with you more. Indeed, eight years on and billions and billions of dollars in &quot;international community&quot; aid later, we should be more than humble about what&#039;s going on, and what it&#039;ll take to simply do no harm, let alone engage at the nexus of culture and the rule of law, sensitive to the former, consistent with the latter.

Two pieces for your consideration about the missing element of analysis: religion. 

1. http://www.military.com/news/article/coin-the-currency-of-victory-in-afghan-war.html; and,

2. http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0804/p09s04-coop.html.

Both discuss just how little we know about the prism through which life is seen in many places Central Asia...

Keep up the good work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua,</p>
<p>Thanks very much for your dose of humble reality&#8230;I couldn&#8217;t agree with you more. Indeed, eight years on and billions and billions of dollars in &#8220;international community&#8221; aid later, we should be more than humble about what&#8217;s going on, and what it&#8217;ll take to simply do no harm, let alone engage at the nexus of culture and the rule of law, sensitive to the former, consistent with the latter.</p>
<p>Two pieces for your consideration about the missing element of analysis: religion. </p>
<p>1. <a href="http://www.military.com/news/article/coin-the-currency-of-victory-in-afghan-war.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.military.com/news/article/coin-the-currency-of-victory-in-afghan-war.html</a>; and,</p>
<p>2. <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0804/p09s04-coop.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0804/p09s04-coop.html</a>.</p>
<p>Both discuss just how little we know about the prism through which life is seen in many places Central Asia&#8230;</p>
<p>Keep up the good work!</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-381663</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9267#comment-381663</guid>
		<description>Spencer, you&#039;re right. The reason I pointed to you was literally because you came up in my RSS reader. The reason I said &quot;no offense&quot; was because I didn&#039;t want to impugn your work, which, as you said, has been very above board. I&#039;ll think of a way to rephrase that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spencer, you&#8217;re right. The reason I pointed to you was literally because you came up in my RSS reader. The reason I said &#8220;no offense&#8221; was because I didn&#8217;t want to impugn your work, which, as you said, has been very above board. I&#8217;ll think of a way to rephrase that.</p>
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		<title>By: Spenc/r Ackerm/n</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-381662</link>
		<dc:creator>Spenc/r Ackerm/n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9267#comment-381662</guid>
		<description>None taken, really, but, self-interested as this is, I don&#039;t think I&#039;m an example of what you point out above. The first lines of the post you cite are &quot;Short answer:*shrug*&quot; and &quot;We don&#039;t yet know what voter turnout was.&quot; One of the last is &quot;If the facts change so will this assessment.&quot; That&#039;s because I agree with you that someone in Washington can&#039;t possibly cover this with any authority, and that has to be conveyed to a reader. The rest of the post, where I think the value is added, is an If/Then statement. But I tried throughout yesterday and will try again today and going forward not to pretend to my readers that I have information I just don&#039;t have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None taken, really, but, self-interested as this is, I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m an example of what you point out above. The first lines of the post you cite are &#8220;Short answer:*shrug*&#8221; and &#8220;We don&#8217;t yet know what voter turnout was.&#8221; One of the last is &#8220;If the facts change so will this assessment.&#8221; That&#8217;s because I agree with you that someone in Washington can&#8217;t possibly cover this with any authority, and that has to be conveyed to a reader. The rest of the post, where I think the value is added, is an If/Then statement. But I tried throughout yesterday and will try again today and going forward not to pretend to my readers that I have information I just don&#8217;t have.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-381656</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9267#comment-381656</guid>
		<description>Ian, you&#039;re not the first to bring that up. Some of his points, like the one about safe havens, are good ones to bring up for discussion. However, he predicates his entire argument on the idea that the discussion about those things isn&#039;t happening.

That&#039;s simply not the case, at least in the pundit circles I see. The war might be a foregone conclusion at a lot of op-ed pages, but there is an entire progressive movement dedicated to challenging Barack Obama on the fundamental merits of the war, and they&#039;ve gathered enough funding for full-time bloggers on the subject.

I&#039;m not opposed to arguing the merits—hell, if I had more energy and hours in the day I think I could probably make a meaningful contribution for the staying argument—but Walt&#039;s premise is false, even if some of his points are good ones. That&#039;s what I wrote off as a &quot;straw man.&quot; His six points deserve addressing, but accusing people of not even talking about it -- especially as opinion polls show a slim majority thinking we have no reason to be there -- is not a particularly valid point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, you&#8217;re not the first to bring that up. Some of his points, like the one about safe havens, are good ones to bring up for discussion. However, he predicates his entire argument on the idea that the discussion about those things isn&#8217;t happening.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s simply not the case, at least in the pundit circles I see. The war might be a foregone conclusion at a lot of op-ed pages, but there is an entire progressive movement dedicated to challenging Barack Obama on the fundamental merits of the war, and they&#8217;ve gathered enough funding for full-time bloggers on the subject.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not opposed to arguing the merits—hell, if I had more energy and hours in the day I think I could probably make a meaningful contribution for the staying argument—but Walt&#8217;s premise is false, even if some of his points are good ones. That&#8217;s what I wrote off as a &#8220;straw man.&#8221; His six points deserve addressing, but accusing people of not even talking about it &#8212; especially as opinion polls show a slim majority thinking we have no reason to be there &#8212; is not a particularly valid point.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-381647</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9267#comment-381647</guid>
		<description>Very accurate representation of my experience today, too. I kept searching for some new, good fat story but kept finding the same stick figures.

By the way, I think you shouldn&#039;t call what Walt does &quot;arguing against a straw man.&quot; You&#039;ve said this about Rory Stewart as well, inaccurately. A straw man is an intentional misrepresentation of an opposing view to make it easier to tear down. Analyzing with good faith the rhetoric of our politicians and leading psuedo-expert wonks is not to construct a straw man; it&#039;s to understand the flaws in thinking that have guided American policy recently. Finding the flaws is something you and I should support--even if we don&#039;t agree (I don&#039;t) with his conclusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very accurate representation of my experience today, too. I kept searching for some new, good fat story but kept finding the same stick figures.</p>
<p>By the way, I think you shouldn&#8217;t call what Walt does &#8220;arguing against a straw man.&#8221; You&#8217;ve said this about Rory Stewart as well, inaccurately. A straw man is an intentional misrepresentation of an opposing view to make it easier to tear down. Analyzing with good faith the rhetoric of our politicians and leading psuedo-expert wonks is not to construct a straw man; it&#8217;s to understand the flaws in thinking that have guided American policy recently. Finding the flaws is something you and I should support&#8211;even if we don&#8217;t agree (I don&#8217;t) with his conclusions.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Chambers</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-381641</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Chambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9267#comment-381641</guid>
		<description>This one gets my vote (will now repeatedly press submit to &quot;stuff&quot; the comments box...). Let&#039;s take a step back and wait for Ramadan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This one gets my vote (will now repeatedly press submit to &#8220;stuff&#8221; the comments box&#8230;). Let&#8217;s take a step back and wait for Ramadan.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Conley</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/08/20/were-not-ready-to-talk-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-381640</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Conley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9267#comment-381640</guid>
		<description>Hey Josh,

Thanks for the hard-nosed reality here. This is KEY. One thing I pointed out to Heidi Vogt for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jdo7zb-_JrJh4e2TQ6WT7V3ai2xgD9A6R7LG0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;her article&lt;/a&gt; which predictably did not get included, is the fact that despite all the hype during the Iran election debacle, and the lack of hype during the Honduras coup, the populations utilizing twitter in both places were essentially similar, educated, western-focused, english speaking, with high internet access(in iran this was of course tempered by Iranian filtering). In Iran&#039;s case those tweeting reflected western bias and the western paradigm on Iran (USA is good, Ahmadi bad we need dialogue but without Ahmadi). In Honduras&#039; case they ran counter to the dominant US paradigm which reflected statements out of State opposing the coup.

so wht happened? No one is aware of the people tweeting from Honduras, whereas everyone and their grandmother has heard about Iran. At the end of the day, twitter was not providing a revolutionary new outlet, it just provided yet another microphone for the privileged and those whose message was comprehensible, understandable, and manageable by the western media paradigm.

We&#039;ve got a long way to go to correct this, but at least we&#039;re trying, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Josh,</p>
<p>Thanks for the hard-nosed reality here. This is KEY. One thing I pointed out to Heidi Vogt for <a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jdo7zb-_JrJh4e2TQ6WT7V3ai2xgD9A6R7LG0" rel="nofollow">her article</a> which predictably did not get included, is the fact that despite all the hype during the Iran election debacle, and the lack of hype during the Honduras coup, the populations utilizing twitter in both places were essentially similar, educated, western-focused, english speaking, with high internet access(in iran this was of course tempered by Iranian filtering). In Iran&#8217;s case those tweeting reflected western bias and the western paradigm on Iran (USA is good, Ahmadi bad we need dialogue but without Ahmadi). In Honduras&#8217; case they ran counter to the dominant US paradigm which reflected statements out of State opposing the coup.</p>
<p>so wht happened? No one is aware of the people tweeting from Honduras, whereas everyone and their grandmother has heard about Iran. At the end of the day, twitter was not providing a revolutionary new outlet, it just provided yet another microphone for the privileged and those whose message was comprehensible, understandable, and manageable by the western media paradigm.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve got a long way to go to correct this, but at least we&#8217;re trying, right?</p>
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