Comments on: HIGs are Pigs http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/ All Central Asia, All The Time Fri, 25 May 2012 20:24:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: DE Tedooru http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-383060 DE Tedooru Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:02:13 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-383060 troll001, Please permit me to disagree as I had knew some leading figures from Central Asia and Mideast while in Europe and in their regions, indeed I went to school with their sons in East Europe. They are cock-sure of only one thing, much like Frenchmen, that they hate how supposedly spiritually low and pragmatic cultures, like US and Israel, surpassed theirs in evolving as sci/tech civilizations. They deem Americans as utter inferiors because of their lack of a sense of history-- just like Europeans-- and fear the American "pragmatism," which since William James they have come to respect as a legit sophisticated philosophy but, nevertheless, a heathen one. They want to be like you Americans, indeed, sent their best kids here, but then they refuse to even consider you legitimately spiritual as they, at least, deem European Christians—“People of the Book.” They especially hate Brits and Americans, but Americans more because, while they feel a deep sense of historic betrayal by the Brits, the Americans their forefathers admired have betrayed them in that we have been as rapacious oil imperialists (note DNI McConnell’s declarations that unfettered access to CHEAP oil is a matter of our national security) worse than the "filthy" Brits-- yet never speak of Americans as "filthy" and never forget the American University system and what it so humbly did for their countries in their youth while Europeans were considering by them as despicable heathen and shysters. What most was destabilizing and frightening to them about the US and Europe is the sexual libertine aspect. They fear it because they fear their easily out of control masculine sexual self-debasing in the face of it. Pakistanis and Indians especially suffer a male sexual inadequacy in the face of it when abroad. But they deem American maleness as a brute anthropoid trait-- sort of penis envy, as some feminists call it. I think Islam is more a crutch and an identity straw to a drowning man as if literate, they cannot escape the weaknesses in their ritualistic faith in the face of temptation. Over and over again they look for someone to blame for their sins. They are rather obsessive about that. Shame is a terribly big factor coming out as maleness and spiritual transcendence of material self. Muslims, I found, were men with incredible self-frustration and self-shame. They feel both indebted and imprisoned by their families. Ever tense in their negotiation of their cognitive dissonance, often, they deem glorious suicide as escape from their internal torment, assuring them the glorious remembrance as shahids. And yet, as Kabul proves to anyone in five minutes, there is a low quality lack of dignity that they leave behind like a trail of foul smelling diarrhea. Suicide in Jihad is, therefore, the only Jihad available to the most sensitive souls. Intimacy is the only way to get to know their totally enfeebling inner battles. Here too the Persians with self discipline after Khomeini were deemed as Jihad victors. Let me give you an example. In the Med School dorms they set up loud-speakers on the roof of every one of the buildings, playing Khomeini giving speeches 24/7 so no one could study in his room and had to go to the library. The Arabs—many of whom were not studying medicine but on a sexual rampage with high school girls—couldn’t speak Farsi. But so impressed were they with the Shia Persians domination of the housing (though most of the Arab students were Sunnis who bought exams with Petrodollars paid to corrupt Red profs) that at least three I knew have since died as suicide shahids physicians in order to cover their failure as physicians back home with the glory of dying as a shahid. War is very much to their liking because they get to convert it into Jihad and can seem honorable dying by the principles by which they never could live, forever tempted into disgusting “Western” flesh mania. I recall Russians sure that they will never win because too many Afghans were out to prove their purity of soul by suicide and fearless fighting, dying in battle. It is not a world of reason and you never know whether you are negotiating with their reasoning left hemisphere or their emotional right hemisphere. There is no way for us to overcome all this but to leave and not return until they solve their internal contradictions-- "internal" as inside each in his own head. If, on the other hand, we could arrange for women to exclusively takeover the Muslim World, we would be supporting Muslim states that would quickly approach the Western level of technology as the women suffer none of these neurotic (if not psychotic) complexes. We are fighting a fire of paleocortical burst that is not tempered in a dependable way by neocortical inhibition. There are genetic neurobiology theories to explain all this as consanguity effects (as in the case of Haredi). But with the madness comes a lot of genius-- alas, wasted on martial Jihad against imaginary Takfiri. Christianity has not been in such a crisis since the Renaissance when it became more rationalist and empiricist. I hope my point can be related to your personal experiences. It comes from much study trying to understand my own with them. AND I FULLY REALIZE THAT ONE CAN’T JUST DAMN A WHOLE BILLION+ PEOPLE BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCES BUT I AM THROWING MY IMPRESSIONS OUT AT YOU FOR DISCUSSION AND MEANING NO INSULT TO THE MANY HONORABLE MUSLIMS AND SHAHIDS for whom Jihad was a real test of faith to cap lives of true piousness. I would certainly not say that we are better, but the clash of civilizations, I fear, will go on until some sort of industrialization ties them more tightly to the material universe. binLaden, if you look carefully at his life, knew well the difference between right and wrong but his Jihad with the Muslim Establishment seems to have been a self-purification struggle. We have been in effect-- through our media-- giving him the image of ascetic purity he sought through war upon us….continuing long after he died of peritonitis. He lives on in doctored videos. Azzam also proved to be a fraud, if not an Israeli agent. This is what torments them: how easily they are fooled by the Infidel Devils into betrayal and sin. Please let me know what you think of this for you seem to have sought to also struggle to understand their torment. Thanks for your responses, troll001. Please note story in Suskind's WAY OF THE WORLD. It is only one case but very perceptive for what I mean. troll001, Please permit me to disagree as I had knew some leading figures from Central Asia and Mideast while in Europe and in their regions, indeed I went to school with their sons in East Europe. They are cock-sure of only one thing, much like Frenchmen, that they hate how supposedly spiritually low and pragmatic cultures, like US and Israel, surpassed theirs in evolving as sci/tech civilizations. They deem Americans as utter inferiors because of their lack of a sense of history– just like Europeans– and fear the American “pragmatism,” which since William James they have come to respect as a legit sophisticated philosophy but, nevertheless, a heathen one. They want to be like you Americans, indeed, sent their best kids here, but then they refuse to even consider you legitimately spiritual as they, at least, deem European Christians—“People of the Book.” They especially hate Brits and Americans, but Americans more because, while they feel a deep sense of historic betrayal by the Brits, the Americans their forefathers admired have betrayed them in that we have been as rapacious oil imperialists (note DNI McConnell’s declarations that unfettered access to CHEAP oil is a matter of our national security) worse than the “filthy” Brits– yet never speak of Americans as “filthy” and never forget the American University system and what it so humbly did for their countries in their youth while Europeans were considering by them as despicable heathen and shysters. What most was destabilizing and frightening to them about the US and Europe is the sexual libertine aspect. They fear it because they fear their easily out of control masculine sexual self-debasing in the face of it. Pakistanis and Indians especially suffer a male sexual inadequacy in the face of it when abroad. But they deem American maleness as a brute anthropoid trait– sort of penis envy, as some feminists call it. I think Islam is more a crutch and an identity straw to a drowning man as if literate, they cannot escape the weaknesses in their ritualistic faith in the face of temptation. Over and over again they look for someone to blame for their sins. They are rather obsessive about that. Shame is a terribly big factor coming out as maleness and spiritual transcendence of material self. Muslims, I found, were men with incredible self-frustration and self-shame. They feel both indebted and imprisoned by their families. Ever tense in their negotiation of their cognitive dissonance, often, they deem glorious suicide as escape from their internal torment, assuring them the glorious remembrance as shahids. And yet, as Kabul proves to anyone in five minutes, there is a low quality lack of dignity that they leave behind like a trail of foul smelling diarrhea. Suicide in Jihad is, therefore, the only Jihad available to the most sensitive souls. Intimacy is the only way to get to know their totally enfeebling inner battles. Here too the Persians with self discipline after Khomeini were deemed as Jihad victors. Let me give you an example. In the Med School dorms they set up loud-speakers on the roof of every one of the buildings, playing Khomeini giving speeches 24/7 so no one could study in his room and had to go to the library. The Arabs—many of whom were not studying medicine but on a sexual rampage with high school girls—couldn’t speak Farsi. But so impressed were they with the Shia Persians domination of the housing (though most of the Arab students were Sunnis who bought exams with Petrodollars paid to corrupt Red profs) that at least three I knew have since died as suicide shahids physicians in order to cover their failure as physicians back home with the glory of dying as a shahid. War is very much to their liking because they get to convert it into Jihad and can seem honorable dying by the principles by which they never could live, forever tempted into disgusting “Western” flesh mania. I recall Russians sure that they will never win because too many Afghans were out to prove their purity of soul by suicide and fearless fighting, dying in battle. It is not a world of reason and you never know whether you are negotiating with their reasoning left hemisphere or their emotional right hemisphere. There is no way for us to overcome all this but to leave and not return until they solve their internal contradictions– “internal” as inside each in his own head.

If, on the other hand, we could arrange for women to exclusively takeover the Muslim World, we would be supporting Muslim states that would quickly approach the Western level of technology as the women suffer none of these neurotic (if not psychotic) complexes. We are fighting a fire of paleocortical burst that is not tempered in a dependable way by neocortical inhibition. There are genetic neurobiology theories to explain all this as consanguity effects (as in the case of Haredi). But with the madness comes a lot of genius– alas, wasted on martial Jihad against imaginary Takfiri. Christianity has not been in such a crisis since the Renaissance when it became more rationalist and empiricist. I hope my point can be related to your personal experiences. It comes from much study trying to understand my own with them. AND I FULLY REALIZE THAT ONE CAN’T JUST DAMN A WHOLE BILLION+ PEOPLE BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCES BUT I AM THROWING MY IMPRESSIONS OUT AT YOU FOR DISCUSSION AND MEANING NO INSULT TO THE MANY HONORABLE MUSLIMS AND SHAHIDS for whom Jihad was a real test of faith to cap lives of true piousness. I would certainly not say that we are better, but the clash of civilizations, I fear, will go on until some sort of industrialization ties them more tightly to the material universe. binLaden, if you look carefully at his life, knew well the difference between right and wrong but his Jihad with the Muslim Establishment seems to have been a self-purification struggle. We have been in effect– through our media– giving him the image of ascetic purity he sought through war upon us….continuing long after he died of peritonitis. He lives on in doctored videos. Azzam also proved to be a fraud, if not an Israeli agent. This is what torments them: how easily they are fooled by the Infidel Devils into betrayal and sin. Please let me know what you think of this for you seem to have sought to also struggle to understand their torment. Thanks for your responses, troll001.

Please note story in Suskind’s WAY OF THE WORLD. It is only one case but very perceptive for what I mean.

]]> By: DE Teodoru http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-383059 DE Teodoru Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:00:29 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-383059 troll001, Please permit me to disagree as I had knew some leading figures from Central Asia and Mideast while in Europe and in their regions, indeed I went to school with their sons in East Europe. They are cock-sure of only one thing, much like Frenchmen, that they hate how supposedly spiritually low and pragmatic cultures, like US and Israel, surpassed theirs in evolving as sci/tech civilizations. They deem Americans as utter inferiors because of their lack of a sense of history-- just like Europeans-- and fear the American "pragmatism," which since William James they have come to respect as a legit sophisticated philosophy but, nevertheless, a heathen one. They want to be like you Americans, indeed, sent their best kids here, but then they refuse to even consider you legitimately spiritual as they, at least, deem European Christians—“People of the Book.” They especially hate Brits and Americans, but Americans more because, while they feel a deep sense of historic betrayal by the Brits, the Americans their forefathers admired have betrayed them in that we have been as rapacious oil imperialists (note DNI McConnell’s declarations that unfettered access to CHEAP oil is a matter of our national security) worse than the "filthy" Brits-- yet never speak of Americans as "filthy" and never forget the American University system and what it so humbly did for their countries in their youth while Europeans were considering by them as despicable heathen and shysters. What most was destabilizing and frightening to them about the US and Europe is the sexual libertine aspect. They fear it because they fear their easily out of control masculine sexual self-debasing in the face of it. Pakistanis and Indians especially suffer a male sexual inadequacy in the face of it when abroad. But they deem American maleness as a brute anthropoid trait-- sort of penis envy, as some feminists call it. I think Islam is more a crutch and an identity straw to a drowning man as if literate, they cannot escape the weaknesses in their ritualistic faith in the face of temptation. Over and over again they look for someone to blame for their sins. They are rather obsessive about that. Shame is a terribly big factor coming out as maleness and spiritual transcendence of material self. Muslims, I found, were men with incredible self-frustration and self-shame. They feel both indebted and imprisoned by their families. Ever tense in their negotiation of their cognitive dissonance, often, they deem glorious suicide as escape from their internal torment, assuring them the glorious remembrance as shahids. And yet, as Kabul proves to anyone in five minutes, there is a low quality lack of dignity that they leave behind like a trail of foul smelling diarrhea. Suicide in Jihad is, therefore, the only Jihad available to the most sensitive souls. Intimacy is the only way to get to know their totally enfeebling inner battles. Here too the Persians with self discipline after Khomeini were deemed as Jihad victors. Let me give you an example. In the Med School dorms they set up loud-speakers on the roof of every one of the buildings, playing Khomeini giving speeches 24/7 so no one could study in his room and had to go to the library. The Arabs—many of whom were not studying medicine but on a sexual rampage with high school girls—couldn’t speak Farsi. But so impressed were they with the Shia Persians domination of the housing (though most of the Arab students were Sunnis who bought exams with Petrodollars paid to corrupt Red profs) that at least three I knew have since died as suicide shahids physicians in order to cover their failure as physicians back home with the glory of dying as a shahid. War is very much to their liking because they get to convert it into Jihad and can seem honorable dying by the principles by which they never could live, forever tempted into disgusting “Western” flesh mania. I recall Russians sure that they will never win because too many Afghans were out to prove their purity of soul by suicide and fearless fighting, dying in battle. It is not a world of reason and you never know whether you are negotiating with their reasoning left hemisphere or their emotional right hemisphere. There is no way for us to overcome all this but to leave and not return until they solve their internal contradictions-- "internal" as inside each in his own head. If, on the other hand, we could arrange for women to exclusively takeover the Muslim World, we would be supporting Muslim states that would quickly approach the Western level of technology as the women suffer none of these neurotic (if not psychotic) complexes. We are fighting a fire of paleocortical burst that is not tempered in a dependable way by neocortical inhibition. There are genetic neurobiology theories to explain all this as consanguity effects (as in the case of Haredi). But with the madness comes a lot of genius-- alas, wasted on martial Jihad against imaginary Takfiri. Christianity has not been in such a crisis since the Renaissance when it became more rationalist and empiricist. I hope my point can be related to your personal experiences. It comes from much study trying to understand my own with them. AND I FULLY REALIZE THAT ONE CAN’T JUST DAMN A WHOLE BILLION+ PEOPLE BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCES BUT I AM THROWING MY IMPRESSIONS OUT AT YOU FOR DISCUSSION AND MEANING NO INSULT TO THE MANY HONORABLE MUSLIMS AND SHAHIDS for whom Jihad was a real test of faith to cap lives of true piousness. I would certainly not say that we are better, but the clash of civilizations, I fear, will go on until some sort of industrialization ties them more tightly to the material universe. binLaden, if you look carefully at his life, knew well the difference between right and wrong but his Jihad with the Muslim Establishment seems to have been a self-purification struggle. We have been in effect-- through our media-- giving him the image of ascetic purity he sought through war upon us….continuing long after he died of peritonitis. He lives on in doctored videos. Azzam also proved to be a fraud, if not an Israeli agent. This is what torments them: how easily they are fooled by the Infidel Devils into betrayal and sin. Please let me know what you think of this for you seem to have sought to also struggle to understand their torment. Thanks for your responses, troll001. troll001, Please permit me to disagree as I had knew some leading figures from Central Asia and Mideast while in Europe and in their regions, indeed I went to school with their sons in East Europe. They are cock-sure of only one thing, much like Frenchmen, that they hate how supposedly spiritually low and pragmatic cultures, like US and Israel, surpassed theirs in evolving as sci/tech civilizations. They deem Americans as utter inferiors because of their lack of a sense of history– just like Europeans– and fear the American “pragmatism,” which since William James they have come to respect as a legit sophisticated philosophy but, nevertheless, a heathen one. They want to be like you Americans, indeed, sent their best kids here, but then they refuse to even consider you legitimately spiritual as they, at least, deem European Christians—“People of the Book.” They especially hate Brits and Americans, but Americans more because, while they feel a deep sense of historic betrayal by the Brits, the Americans their forefathers admired have betrayed them in that we have been as rapacious oil imperialists (note DNI McConnell’s declarations that unfettered access to CHEAP oil is a matter of our national security) worse than the “filthy” Brits– yet never speak of Americans as “filthy” and never forget the American University system and what it so humbly did for their countries in their youth while Europeans were considering by them as despicable heathen and shysters. What most was destabilizing and frightening to them about the US and Europe is the sexual libertine aspect. They fear it because they fear their easily out of control masculine sexual self-debasing in the face of it. Pakistanis and Indians especially suffer a male sexual inadequacy in the face of it when abroad. But they deem American maleness as a brute anthropoid trait– sort of penis envy, as some feminists call it. I think Islam is more a crutch and an identity straw to a drowning man as if literate, they cannot escape the weaknesses in their ritualistic faith in the face of temptation. Over and over again they look for someone to blame for their sins. They are rather obsessive about that. Shame is a terribly big factor coming out as maleness and spiritual transcendence of material self. Muslims, I found, were men with incredible self-frustration and self-shame. They feel both indebted and imprisoned by their families. Ever tense in their negotiation of their cognitive dissonance, often, they deem glorious suicide as escape from their internal torment, assuring them the glorious remembrance as shahids. And yet, as Kabul proves to anyone in five minutes, there is a low quality lack of dignity that they leave behind like a trail of foul smelling diarrhea. Suicide in Jihad is, therefore, the only Jihad available to the most sensitive souls. Intimacy is the only way to get to know their totally enfeebling inner battles. Here too the Persians with self discipline after Khomeini were deemed as Jihad victors. Let me give you an example. In the Med School dorms they set up loud-speakers on the roof of every one of the buildings, playing Khomeini giving speeches 24/7 so no one could study in his room and had to go to the library. The Arabs—many of whom were not studying medicine but on a sexual rampage with high school girls—couldn’t speak Farsi. But so impressed were they with the Shia Persians domination of the housing (though most of the Arab students were Sunnis who bought exams with Petrodollars paid to corrupt Red profs) that at least three I knew have since died as suicide shahids physicians in order to cover their failure as physicians back home with the glory of dying as a shahid. War is very much to their liking because they get to convert it into Jihad and can seem honorable dying by the principles by which they never could live, forever tempted into disgusting “Western” flesh mania. I recall Russians sure that they will never win because too many Afghans were out to prove their purity of soul by suicide and fearless fighting, dying in battle. It is not a world of reason and you never know whether you are negotiating with their reasoning left hemisphere or their emotional right hemisphere. There is no way for us to overcome all this but to leave and not return until they solve their internal contradictions– “internal” as inside each in his own head.

If, on the other hand, we could arrange for women to exclusively takeover the Muslim World, we would be supporting Muslim states that would quickly approach the Western level of technology as the women suffer none of these neurotic (if not psychotic) complexes. We are fighting a fire of paleocortical burst that is not tempered in a dependable way by neocortical inhibition. There are genetic neurobiology theories to explain all this as consanguity effects (as in the case of Haredi). But with the madness comes a lot of genius– alas, wasted on martial Jihad against imaginary Takfiri. Christianity has not been in such a crisis since the Renaissance when it became more rationalist and empiricist. I hope my point can be related to your personal experiences. It comes from much study trying to understand my own with them. AND I FULLY REALIZE THAT ONE CAN’T JUST DAMN A WHOLE BILLION+ PEOPLE BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCES BUT I AM THROWING MY IMPRESSIONS OUT AT YOU FOR DISCUSSION AND MEANING NO INSULT TO THE MANY HONORABLE MUSLIMS AND SHAHIDS for whom Jihad was a real test of faith to cap lives of true piousness. I would certainly not say that we are better, but the clash of civilizations, I fear, will go on until some sort of industrialization ties them more tightly to the material universe. binLaden, if you look carefully at his life, knew well the difference between right and wrong but his Jihad with the Muslim Establishment seems to have been a self-purification struggle. We have been in effect– through our media– giving him the image of ascetic purity he sought through war upon us….continuing long after he died of peritonitis. He lives on in doctored videos. Azzam also proved to be a fraud, if not an Israeli agent. This is what torments them: how easily they are fooled by the Infidel Devils into betrayal and sin. Please let me know what you think of this for you seem to have sought to also struggle to understand their torment. Thanks for your responses, troll001.

]]> By: troll001 http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-383058 troll001 Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:43:00 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-383058 DE Teodoru wrote> and there is a will to prove us wrong in all the oil sheikdoms I frankly disagree with you on this one. It seems to me, they are on their traditional conquest, that they have been doing for centuries and not to prove anything to us. They just want us be conquered, enslaved or killed, as they did in Syria, Egipt, Lybia, Magrib a while back when they conquered those lands, guess what language is now spoken there. They are about to conquer Europe next. Proving anything to anyone is a result of child psychological trauma as self doubt. They are cock sure of what they are doing and as they loath us I doubt they care what we think, leave alone to prove anything to us. What I think could help though to deal with them, is to be more restrained in preventing dynasties change there once in a while to keep our leveraged higher. Given of cause that there is still some patriots left in decision making process and not all are your typical paper throwing career opportunists, ready to eat shit for any kind of self interest.. DE Teodoru wrote> and there is a will to prove us wrong in all the oil sheikdoms

I frankly disagree with you on this one. It seems to me, they are on their traditional conquest, that they have been doing for centuries and not to prove anything to us. They just want us be conquered, enslaved or killed, as they did in Syria, Egipt, Lybia, Magrib a while back when they conquered those lands, guess what language is now spoken there. They are about to conquer Europe next. Proving anything to anyone is a result of child psychological trauma as self doubt. They are cock sure of what they are doing and as they loath us I doubt they care what we think, leave alone to prove anything to us. What I think could help though to deal with them, is to be more restrained in preventing dynasties change there once in a while to keep our leveraged higher. Given of cause that there is still some patriots left in decision making process and not all are your typical paper throwing career opportunists, ready to eat shit for any kind of self interest..

]]> By: anan http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-383057 anan Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:15:35 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-383057 troll001 10/10/2009 at 9:41 am, perceptive comments. I would love to share stories with the locals . . . and this type of interaction would yield benefits? Are GIs not doing this? troll001 10/10/2009 at 9:41 am, perceptive comments. I would love to share stories with the locals . . . and this type of interaction would yield benefits? Are GIs not doing this?

]]> By: DE Teodoru http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-383056 DE Teodoru Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:29:24 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-383056 troll001, bravo, bravo, bravo....We are seeing the forest as very dark and not noticing that the trees can be pruned and used to our advantage. There is an exhaustion of ingenuity that I never saw before in US military. I recall German Western Front Commanders telling me as a boy after WW II that Americans had garbage equipment but their ingenuity was celebrated by the highest levels when coming form the lowest levels and all units were encouraged to improvise so that it more than made up for bad equipment. That may not have been totally correct, but imagine what it means when that's what the enemy thinks of you. I recall what mujahedeen commanders thought of the Russian Command structure and their many tall tales about how they exploited that. But keep in mind that there is a motley command line culture in the insurgency that confronts our ordnance punch with a pack of steel balls instead of a single mass that we can shatter. The force is dissipated between the loosely connected balls and everything does not shatter. IT IS THEY, NOT US, who are fighting on the cheap and we, not them, are the ones broke, as the $$$ coming from the Arabian Gulf, useless in any other capital venue, are reinforcing the Islamic resistance far more than heroine. Bush turned this into a neocon WW IV against Islam, intentionally or intentionally, and there is a will to prove us wrong in all the oil sheikdoms. In this sense there is comparison with Vietnam and the Red Bloc, but never in Vietnam had our military ever been so moving in the wrong direction in trying to reach some goal. And yet, today's Pentagoners will refuse to discuss that "loser's war, Vietnam." Perhaps at this point, a REAL human map of Afghanistan should precede any strategic discussion. troll001, bravo, bravo, bravo….We are seeing the forest as very dark and not noticing that the trees can be pruned and used to our advantage. There is an exhaustion of ingenuity that I never saw before in US military. I recall German Western Front Commanders telling me as a boy after WW II that Americans had garbage equipment but their ingenuity was celebrated by the highest levels when coming form the lowest levels and all units were encouraged to improvise so that it more than made up for bad equipment. That may not have been totally correct, but imagine what it means when that’s what the enemy thinks of you. I recall what mujahedeen commanders thought of the Russian Command structure and their many tall tales about how they exploited that. But keep in mind that there is a motley command line culture in the insurgency that confronts our ordnance punch with a pack of steel balls instead of a single mass that we can shatter. The force is dissipated between the loosely connected balls and everything does not shatter. IT IS THEY, NOT US, who are fighting on the cheap and we, not them, are the ones broke, as the $$$ coming from the Arabian Gulf, useless in any other capital venue, are reinforcing the Islamic resistance far more than heroine. Bush turned this into a neocon WW IV against Islam, intentionally or intentionally, and there is a will to prove us wrong in all the oil sheikdoms. In this sense there is comparison with Vietnam and the Red Bloc, but never in Vietnam had our military ever been so moving in the wrong direction in trying to reach some goal. And yet, today’s Pentagoners will refuse to discuss that “loser’s war, Vietnam.” Perhaps at this point, a REAL human map of Afghanistan should precede any strategic discussion.

]]> By: troll001 http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-383045 troll001 Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:41:20 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-383045 I would not call it analysis. An analysis would answer questions why, why here, why now, for what purpose and to achieve what, and by whom. What I hear is pittance and salesmanship. Even if it is widely agreed that the locals did that, the name of Taliban nevertheless is invoked ? Wholy crap, there were no Peshtuns involved. It gotta be politically correct Taliban to ease get some pitty promotion. Like that SCO who put his self promoting wise acting in AP report, even when he got 8 KIAs for no particular reason. What an asshole. To answer why this happened one have to look into interests of the chieftans. One of which would be to get more cheaper 'wives'. Second remove undue influence and perceived competition. US in there case does not differ much from neighboring tribes, like Ksto, in Koms chieftains perceiptions as neighboring tribes, Ksto, given opportunity do not hesitate to destroy them. Killing brothers en masse would facilitate the tasks for getting cheaper 'wifes', as to lead to impoverishment of families and more willingness to trade-in 'wives' cheaply and in general to more dependencies. Not much different to what US gov is doing through a larger scale wars with unnecessary KIAs and massive imprisonment of naive kids, while inviting friendly full body interns for a head job, that these kids would otherwise be enjoying themselves on the beach, instead of rotting in jail en masse for smoking a joint or two or worse loosing their lives needlessly. As to when: during the summer time when brothers are out on pastures, some women left behind are inevitably taken advantage of, more likely by chieftans than not. So when brothers are returned back, it's worth while to get them slaughtered right away, so that to prevent their revenge when they find it out abou it and not turned their weapons on perpetrators. And a friendly mosque preacher would gladly help for a reasonable fee. Nothing here that the history have not told us have been happening thru millenia. This is not something unique to Noristan. A reasonable historian or etymologist would be able to tell. Now to McCrystal's suggestion to treat locals with respect as we know it. One should not have to go as far as Kamdesh, to prove these theories as a bogus. He'd better listen to Obama, for example, familiar with places like Gary, Indiana, where such tactic would produce the reverse result compared to naively expected one. One should treat people not as one treat his friends, but how his potentially friends expect him to treat them. In any case , one should read a book or two of history to be in the position to make decision. Shooting skills are irrelevant, as Kamdesh story tells us about. What I think could actually help is court marchalling those responsible for the design and logistics of the compound. Those MFs that could not even build a simple fortess known around the world for millennial has no right to breed. Besides they could have found a used one somewhere nearby and just restore it. Even the better way though would be to drink tea regularly with Koms chiefnans, smoke a pipe, amuse them with stories from abroad, accept their daughters, and offer them a willing blond interrogator type in return. There is nothing that could lead to more friendship that stories told to a ruler in such a boring place, and establishing of the perceived family ties, as to work along his expectations and traditions. Cowboys acting from wild dakota plains is naturally loathed at in such remote places, no more or less than Peshtums or Ksto tribesmen acting along their lines. I would not call it analysis. An analysis would answer questions why, why here, why now, for what purpose and to achieve what, and by whom. What I hear is pittance and salesmanship.

Even if it is widely agreed that the locals did that, the name of Taliban nevertheless is invoked ? Wholy crap, there were no Peshtuns involved. It gotta be politically correct Taliban to ease get some pitty promotion. Like that SCO who put his self promoting wise acting in AP report, even when he got 8 KIAs for no particular reason. What an asshole.

To answer why this happened one have to look into interests of the chieftans. One of which would be to get more cheaper ‘wives’.
Second remove undue influence and perceived competition. US in there case does not differ much from neighboring tribes, like Ksto, in Koms chieftains perceiptions as neighboring tribes, Ksto, given opportunity do not hesitate to destroy them.

Killing brothers en masse would facilitate the tasks for getting cheaper ‘wifes’, as to lead to impoverishment of families and more willingness to trade-in ‘wives’ cheaply and in general to more dependencies. Not much different to what US gov is doing through a larger scale wars with unnecessary KIAs and massive imprisonment of naive kids, while inviting friendly full body interns for a head job, that these kids would otherwise be enjoying themselves on the beach, instead of rotting in jail en masse for smoking a joint or two or worse loosing their lives needlessly.

As to when: during the summer time when brothers are out on pastures, some women left behind are inevitably taken advantage of, more likely by chieftans than not. So when brothers are returned back, it’s worth while to get them slaughtered right away, so that to prevent their revenge when they find it out abou it and not turned their weapons on perpetrators. And a friendly mosque preacher would gladly help for a reasonable fee. Nothing here that the history have not told us have been happening thru millenia. This is not something unique to Noristan. A reasonable historian or etymologist would be able to tell.

Now to McCrystal’s suggestion to treat locals with respect as we know it. One should not have to go as far as Kamdesh, to prove these theories as a bogus. He’d better listen to Obama, for example, familiar with places like Gary, Indiana, where such tactic would produce the reverse result compared to naively expected one. One should treat people not as one treat his friends, but how his potentially friends expect him to treat them.

In any case , one should read a book or two of history to be in the position to make decision. Shooting skills are irrelevant, as Kamdesh story tells us about. What I think could actually help is court marchalling those responsible for the design and logistics of the compound. Those MFs that could not even build a simple fortess known around the world for millennial has no right to breed. Besides they could have found a used one somewhere nearby and just restore it.

Even the better way though would be to drink tea regularly with Koms chiefnans, smoke a pipe, amuse them with stories from abroad, accept their daughters, and offer them a willing blond interrogator type in return. There is nothing that could lead to more friendship that stories told to a ruler in such a boring place, and establishing of the perceived family ties, as to work along his expectations and traditions.

Cowboys acting from wild dakota plains is naturally loathed at in such remote places, no more or less than Peshtums or Ksto tribesmen acting along their lines.

]]> By: Joshua Foust http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-382977 Joshua Foust Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:21:14 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-382977 Well, Dost is the local Taliban affiliate. They work with HiG when they need to, so it's not impossible he had a role to play (though I'm really only aware of Long War Journal pushing the whole Brigade 055/Shadow Taliban thing). The reason I'm sticking primarily with HiG is they are still the strongest group in the province, and they still enjoy the most local support. I'd be surprised if al Qaeda or the Taliban could launch any attacks in Nuristan without HiG's (at minimum) tacit approval. I think you're right to point out that it was a mistake to funnel so much money to Hekmatyar in the 1980s. But we didn't *really* care about what happened in Afghanistan then, all we really cared about was bleeding the Soviets. So we did things without an eye toward the future. That what troubles me about the current round of debating in the U.S. It is not taking place in a world with unintended consequences and negative externalities, it is taking place in a comic book... on both sides. I'm worried we'll make a politically expedient decision that leaves us far worse off down the road. Well, Dost is the local Taliban affiliate. They work with HiG when they need to, so it’s not impossible he had a role to play (though I’m really only aware of Long War Journal pushing the whole Brigade 055/Shadow Taliban thing). The reason I’m sticking primarily with HiG is they are still the strongest group in the province, and they still enjoy the most local support. I’d be surprised if al Qaeda or the Taliban could launch any attacks in Nuristan without HiG’s (at minimum) tacit approval.

I think you’re right to point out that it was a mistake to funnel so much money to Hekmatyar in the 1980s. But we didn’t *really* care about what happened in Afghanistan then, all we really cared about was bleeding the Soviets. So we did things without an eye toward the future.

That what troubles me about the current round of debating in the U.S. It is not taking place in a world with unintended consequences and negative externalities, it is taking place in a comic book… on both sides. I’m worried we’ll make a politically expedient decision that leaves us far worse off down the road.

]]> By: GovIntegrity http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-382976 GovIntegrity Wed, 07 Oct 2009 04:38:52 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-382976 Great analysis once again. What do you make of the media playing up Dost Muhammed's involvement and down Hekmatyar's? I'm not sure what to make of that but here are my general takes: <a href="http://govintegrity.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">GovIntegrity.com</a> Great analysis once again. What do you make of the media playing up Dost Muhammed’s involvement and down Hekmatyar’s?

I’m not sure what to make of that but here are my general takes: GovIntegrity.com

]]> By: David M http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-382946 David M Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:00:45 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-382946 The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the blog post <a href="http://www.thunderrun.us/2009/10/from-front-10052009.html" rel="nofollow">From the Front: 10/05/2009 </a> News and Personal dispatches from the front and the home front. The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the blog post From the Front: 10/05/2009 News and Personal dispatches from the front and the home front.

]]> By: DE Teodoru http://registan.net/index.php/2009/10/04/higs-are-pigs-2/comment-page-1/#comment-382945 DE Teodoru Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:58:22 +0000 http://www.registan.net/?p=9655#comment-382945 Anan, forgive me please but I am a bit skeptical about a "South Vietnamese view." My point about urbanization is a well documented South AND North Vietamense view. We had the documents about the Tet Offensive and urbanization. I also had a chance over years to see their version of Phoenix work and how the MAT and CAP teams as subsidiaries rather than "get out of the way of MY war in YOUR country because I've got to get stars on my collar" worked. This business about mass murder by Phoenix is not the case as a rule. I was hoping to hear what you all think of the idea I've been throwing at Giustozzi and others of errecting maufacturing towns in the NW where people are given jobs in a controlled environment where they are educated, cared for and well payed with access to goods to soak their income, as Saigon had become. That's was expensive but that's what urbanized South Vietnam. Later, from the cities, as the infrastructure spread back down the Delta, villages through a land reform developed RATIONAL farming. I still have the analysis documents and was about to retire from health care to write a book on Vietnam when I was at the Borders bookstore in the World Trade Center picking up an order and all hell broke loose. Since then I felt duty bound to get involved in all this as Afghnaistan was made a part in my life when a student in East Europe (I won't say more but I am seeing repeat of old foolishness). I have come to hate Petraeus and McChrystal because I think them so dumb that they think they can fool all of the people all of the time using hot button words and little else. I have been pushing the view on the "surge" that Ricks has finally come to and the military has only been covering its butt, in my view. I don't want to see a repeat in Afghanistan.. But then I realized that my rage is at their seeming incompetence when I really don't know them or what they're up against. Military friends say they are both good men. I don't like to just bitch while doing nothing, thus making commanders the butt of my frustration with the uselss losses as America sinks into debt. So I hope to get a number or retirees with various useful skills and we become a sort of "Granda Vlunteer Corps" for the civil effort in Afghanistan. There's an advantage even there that old men coming in unarmed to help have in the eyes of locals. I learned this from old "Blowtorsh" in Vietnam. Many of us are living on borrowed time anyway, eating our children's future as pension, so why not earn them by volunteering to help people who are so desperate ANYTHING would be help. That way I would stop hating and denegrading our generals who may be fine men; but I hold them to the standards of some of the Vietnam generals I knew well and the West Point Class of 76 doesn't seem to measure up. Still, being there is a lot more bearable than being here heplessly raging over all the moms and dads (today's soldiers are on average 5 yrs. older than Vietnam) neelessly killed-- leaving behind widows and orphans America will forget as it did with Vietnam vets-- because of needless Afghan/Iraq command errors. This site is probably the most sensitive I have seen to the Afghna plight. I think Mr. Foust should be fully supported. Most people don't know about the historic Afghan ties with the Central Asian neighborhood and with the Shanghai Accord long after we are gone. At any rate, either we ALL do something or pull our patriotic heroes out. Every night since 9/11 I have been feeling shame how they have been sending these patriots in intel blind, language deaf and culture dumb in both theaters with all lesons of the past set aside. As an American by choice not chance I am totally disgusted with aging America's "ain't my kid going to Iraq/Afghnaistan" disconnect syndrome. That drives me more crazy that anything in Afghnaistan and Iraq. So let me thank you for your kind willingness to help me understand what you think is going on. The more of us engage in MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE and teach-in debates, the more the nation comes to know its individual citizen's responsibility rather than pawn it off on "specialists." You're all a fine bunch of Americans who don't just leave your Afghna experiences behind but keep a dialogue of learning going on this site. Than God, no "disoconnect syndrome" here! Anan, forgive me please but I am a bit skeptical about a “South Vietnamese view.” My point about urbanization is a well documented South AND North Vietamense view. We had the documents about the Tet Offensive and urbanization. I also had a chance over years to see their version of Phoenix work and how the MAT and CAP teams as subsidiaries rather than “get out of the way of MY war in YOUR country because I’ve got to get stars on my collar” worked. This business about mass murder by Phoenix is not the case as a rule.

I was hoping to hear what you all think of the idea I’ve been throwing at Giustozzi and others of errecting maufacturing towns in the NW where people are given jobs in a controlled environment where they are educated, cared for and well payed with access to goods to soak their income, as Saigon had become. That’s was expensive but that’s what urbanized South Vietnam. Later, from the cities, as the infrastructure spread back down the Delta, villages through a land reform developed RATIONAL farming. I still have the analysis documents and was about to retire from health care to write a book on Vietnam when I was at the Borders bookstore in the World Trade Center picking up an order and all hell broke loose. Since then I felt duty bound to get involved in all this as Afghnaistan was made a part in my life when a student in East Europe (I won’t say more but I am seeing repeat of old foolishness). I have come to hate Petraeus and McChrystal because I think them so dumb that they think they can fool all of the people all of the time using hot button words and little else. I have been pushing the view on the “surge” that Ricks has finally come to and the military has only been covering its butt, in my view. I don’t want to see a repeat in Afghanistan.. But then I realized that my rage is at their seeming incompetence when I really don’t know them or what they’re up against. Military friends say they are both good men.

I don’t like to just bitch while doing nothing, thus making commanders the butt of my frustration with the uselss losses as America sinks into debt. So I hope to get a number or retirees with various useful skills and we become a sort of “Granda Vlunteer Corps” for the civil effort in Afghanistan. There’s an advantage even there that old men coming in unarmed to help have in the eyes of locals. I learned this from old “Blowtorsh” in Vietnam. Many of us are living on borrowed time anyway, eating our children’s future as pension, so why not earn them by volunteering to help people who are so desperate ANYTHING would be help. That way I would stop hating and denegrading our generals who may be fine men; but I hold them to the standards of some of the Vietnam generals I knew well and the West Point Class of 76 doesn’t seem to measure up. Still, being there is a lot more bearable than being here heplessly raging over all the moms and dads (today’s soldiers are on average 5 yrs. older than Vietnam) neelessly killed– leaving behind widows and orphans America will forget as it did with Vietnam vets– because of needless Afghan/Iraq command errors.

This site is probably the most sensitive I have seen to the Afghna plight. I think Mr. Foust should be fully supported. Most people don’t know about the historic Afghan ties with the Central Asian neighborhood and with the Shanghai Accord long after we are gone. At any rate, either we ALL do something or pull our patriotic heroes out. Every night since 9/11 I have been feeling shame how they have been sending these patriots in intel blind, language deaf and culture dumb in both theaters with all lesons of the past set aside. As an American by choice not chance I am totally disgusted with aging America’s “ain’t my kid going to Iraq/Afghnaistan” disconnect syndrome. That drives me more crazy that anything in Afghnaistan and Iraq. So let me thank you for your kind willingness to help me understand what you think is going on. The more of us engage in MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE and teach-in debates, the more the nation comes to know its individual citizen’s responsibility rather than pawn it off on “specialists.” You’re all a fine bunch of Americans who don’t just leave your Afghna experiences behind but keep a dialogue of learning going on this site. Than God, no “disoconnect syndrome” here!

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