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	<title>Comments on: Book review: The Great Gamble by Gregory Feifer</title>
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	<description>All Central Asia, All The Time</description>
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		<title>By: Julien Katchinoff</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383529</link>
		<dc:creator>Julien Katchinoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383529</guid>
		<description>Julia, 

Your wish was actually granted in 1990 by Artyom Borovik, in &quot;The Hidden War,&quot; which, interestingly, also features the original cover used by Mr. Feifer. 

http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-War-Russian-Journalists-Afghanistan/dp/080213775X</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julia, </p>
<p>Your wish was actually granted in 1990 by Artyom Borovik, in &#8220;The Hidden War,&#8221; which, interestingly, also features the original cover used by Mr. Feifer. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-War-Russian-Journalists-Afghanistan/dp/080213775X" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-War-Russian-Journalists-Afghanistan/dp/080213775X</a></p>
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		<title>By: Faisal Nazir</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383517</link>
		<dc:creator>Faisal Nazir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383517</guid>
		<description>I am disappointed by your inability to understand other’s point of view. I am talking to remove the ISAF, which has given only death and destruction to Afghans and bloodbath to Pakistanis, and replace it with totally a new Islamic Peace Force. Many other dirty not-so-visible players are busy in Afghanistan to promote terrorism in this region in the garb of the war against terrorism. The consequences of all that mischief are bound to bring more instability and bloodshed in the region. That may probably be the actual goal of these foreign intruders and aggressors. But if some one is really interested in the stability, development, and progress in this region, a way to stop the bloodbath in Afghanistan and Pakistan must be found. To me, ISAF is completely incapable of achieving that goal. ISAF should be replaced with a new peace force consisting only of troops from Islamic countries. I never meant that Islamic countries should contribute troops under the command of ISAF. In fact, many Islamic countries were approached and pressurized by Bush administration for doing so but almost all of them refused. India, however, is now widely expected to send troops to assist in ISAF mission of subduing Afghans. Indians have so far enjoyed a relatively safe operational environment in Afghanistan under ISAF protection. Indians, I believe, will now be put to taste the real war by participating in the missions against Afghans. Most of the fifty countries that you claimed are currently participating in Afghan mission have only a token presence there. Majority of those countries, I am sure, want to see peace and stability in Afghanistan. But the main contributors are only few countries and most of them are practically fighting against Afghan people. 

Yes, it’s true that militaries of many Islamic countries may not posses that high level of technical expertise as some of ISAF troops can boast of. Those higher capabilities, however, are being utilized to kill more Afghans. For training Afghan army and police forces, one does not really require NATO-level standards for the instructors in any case. Afghan Army is not supposed to accomplish NATO missions. Also, the mission of Islamic peace force will not be to fight against Afghans but rather to do the peace keeping duties and facilitating intra-Afghan negotiations aimed Afghan national reconciliation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am disappointed by your inability to understand other’s point of view. I am talking to remove the ISAF, which has given only death and destruction to Afghans and bloodbath to Pakistanis, and replace it with totally a new Islamic Peace Force. Many other dirty not-so-visible players are busy in Afghanistan to promote terrorism in this region in the garb of the war against terrorism. The consequences of all that mischief are bound to bring more instability and bloodshed in the region. That may probably be the actual goal of these foreign intruders and aggressors. But if some one is really interested in the stability, development, and progress in this region, a way to stop the bloodbath in Afghanistan and Pakistan must be found. To me, ISAF is completely incapable of achieving that goal. ISAF should be replaced with a new peace force consisting only of troops from Islamic countries. I never meant that Islamic countries should contribute troops under the command of ISAF. In fact, many Islamic countries were approached and pressurized by Bush administration for doing so but almost all of them refused. India, however, is now widely expected to send troops to assist in ISAF mission of subduing Afghans. Indians have so far enjoyed a relatively safe operational environment in Afghanistan under ISAF protection. Indians, I believe, will now be put to taste the real war by participating in the missions against Afghans. Most of the fifty countries that you claimed are currently participating in Afghan mission have only a token presence there. Majority of those countries, I am sure, want to see peace and stability in Afghanistan. But the main contributors are only few countries and most of them are practically fighting against Afghan people. </p>
<p>Yes, it’s true that militaries of many Islamic countries may not posses that high level of technical expertise as some of ISAF troops can boast of. Those higher capabilities, however, are being utilized to kill more Afghans. For training Afghan army and police forces, one does not really require NATO-level standards for the instructors in any case. Afghan Army is not supposed to accomplish NATO missions. Also, the mission of Islamic peace force will not be to fight against Afghans but rather to do the peace keeping duties and facilitating intra-Afghan negotiations aimed Afghan national reconciliation.</p>
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		<title>By: anan</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383514</link>
		<dc:creator>anan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383514</guid>
		<description>Faisal, currently 43 countries contribute military forces to ISAF. Other countries contribute to CSTC-A/NTM-A or OEF but not to ISAF. A total of over 50 countries contribute military forces to Afghanistan. Several are muslim majority countries.

Do you support increased contributions from Turkey and other muslim majority countries? I am surprised, since their primary mission would be to train and equip the ANSF, which you are suspicious of. Do you know a single OIC country that doesn&#039;t back President Karzai? If not, why would you be okay with OIC trainers and advisors for the ANSF?

I think the Afghans, MoD, MoI, and CSTC-A/NTM-A would delighted if the OIC sent ANP trainers, judge/attorney trainers, ANP advisors, and a civilian surge to increase the capacity of Afghan civilian institutions.

Faisal, the Afghans have already asked OIC countries to contribute. What else do you think the Afghans should do to encourage them to contribute?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faisal, currently 43 countries contribute military forces to ISAF. Other countries contribute to CSTC-A/NTM-A or OEF but not to ISAF. A total of over 50 countries contribute military forces to Afghanistan. Several are muslim majority countries.</p>
<p>Do you support increased contributions from Turkey and other muslim majority countries? I am surprised, since their primary mission would be to train and equip the ANSF, which you are suspicious of. Do you know a single OIC country that doesn&#8217;t back President Karzai? If not, why would you be okay with OIC trainers and advisors for the ANSF?</p>
<p>I think the Afghans, MoD, MoI, and CSTC-A/NTM-A would delighted if the OIC sent ANP trainers, judge/attorney trainers, ANP advisors, and a civilian surge to increase the capacity of Afghan civilian institutions.</p>
<p>Faisal, the Afghans have already asked OIC countries to contribute. What else do you think the Afghans should do to encourage them to contribute?</p>
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		<title>By: Faisal Nazir</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383513</link>
		<dc:creator>Faisal Nazir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383513</guid>
		<description>&quot;Faisal, the problem is that you, and presumably some other Pakistanis, don’t like the GIRoA and its ANSF, and would presumably support violent attacks against any OIC forces that came to Afghanistan. It is probable that many Pakistanis would as afraid and suspicious of the OIC forces as they are afraid and suspicious of ANSF and ISAF.&quot; 
What? These claims are just based on ignorance and obviously contrary to the facts. Why Pakistanis would oppose the mission of  the Muslim peace force controlled by the OIC. It will only be the evil forces, which descended in Afghanistan eight years ago and are busy spreading death, destruction, and mischief in the region since then. Any peace mission by Muslim forces will certainly kick these aliens out. Pakistan would actually fully support that effort and offer an effective cooperation to get rid of these vultures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Faisal, the problem is that you, and presumably some other Pakistanis, don’t like the GIRoA and its ANSF, and would presumably support violent attacks against any OIC forces that came to Afghanistan. It is probable that many Pakistanis would as afraid and suspicious of the OIC forces as they are afraid and suspicious of ANSF and ISAF.&#8221;<br />
What? These claims are just based on ignorance and obviously contrary to the facts. Why Pakistanis would oppose the mission of  the Muslim peace force controlled by the OIC. It will only be the evil forces, which descended in Afghanistan eight years ago and are busy spreading death, destruction, and mischief in the region since then. Any peace mission by Muslim forces will certainly kick these aliens out. Pakistan would actually fully support that effort and offer an effective cooperation to get rid of these vultures.</p>
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		<title>By: anan</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383512</link>
		<dc:creator>anan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383512</guid>
		<description>The OIC is welcome to train and equip the ANSF, and increase the capacity of civilian Afghan institutions. Some of their members are, especially Turkey. To my knowledge every member of the OIC backs the Pres Karzai government, and in public are all peachy with him, in sharp contrast to NATO countries, which seem to be  the only countries willing to take on the GIRoA (Gov Islamic Republic of Afghanistan) in the world.

Faisal, the problem is that you, and presumably some other Pakistanis, don&#039;t like the GIRoA and its ANSF, and would presumably support violent attacks against any OIC forces that came to Afghanistan. It is probable that many Pakistanis would as afraid and suspicious of the OIC forces as they are afraid and suspicious of ANSF and ISAF.

It would also take the OIC many years to train their forces in Dhari, Pashtu and Afghan culture, the way some ISAF forces have been trained. Many OIC countries lack large Afghan diasporas to recruit from. It would be very expensive to train, equip and field OIC security forces and civilians in Afghanistan; more expensive than training, equipping and fielding the ANSF in Afghanistan. Who would foot the bill for the OIC security forces and civilian surge? Who would train and equip the OIC forces so that they in turn could train and equip the ANSF?

And then there is a quality issue. Bangladeshi security forces for example are widely considered to be less than optimal quality (especially compared to Pakistanis and Indians.) Bangladesh has better quality security forces than most OIC countries. Arguably the only Arab Army that is as good quality as the Iraqi Army is the Jordanian Army. And we all know that the Iraqi Army has challenges.

This said, my hope would be that Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, and Arab countries play a larger role in:
-training and advising Afghan judges and attorneys
-training the Afghan Police
-advising the Afghan Police (this would be a stretch for most OIC countries, although some of them such as Turkey are contributing POMLTs as we speak.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The OIC is welcome to train and equip the ANSF, and increase the capacity of civilian Afghan institutions. Some of their members are, especially Turkey. To my knowledge every member of the OIC backs the Pres Karzai government, and in public are all peachy with him, in sharp contrast to NATO countries, which seem to be  the only countries willing to take on the GIRoA (Gov Islamic Republic of Afghanistan) in the world.</p>
<p>Faisal, the problem is that you, and presumably some other Pakistanis, don&#8217;t like the GIRoA and its ANSF, and would presumably support violent attacks against any OIC forces that came to Afghanistan. It is probable that many Pakistanis would as afraid and suspicious of the OIC forces as they are afraid and suspicious of ANSF and ISAF.</p>
<p>It would also take the OIC many years to train their forces in Dhari, Pashtu and Afghan culture, the way some ISAF forces have been trained. Many OIC countries lack large Afghan diasporas to recruit from. It would be very expensive to train, equip and field OIC security forces and civilians in Afghanistan; more expensive than training, equipping and fielding the ANSF in Afghanistan. Who would foot the bill for the OIC security forces and civilian surge? Who would train and equip the OIC forces so that they in turn could train and equip the ANSF?</p>
<p>And then there is a quality issue. Bangladeshi security forces for example are widely considered to be less than optimal quality (especially compared to Pakistanis and Indians.) Bangladesh has better quality security forces than most OIC countries. Arguably the only Arab Army that is as good quality as the Iraqi Army is the Jordanian Army. And we all know that the Iraqi Army has challenges.</p>
<p>This said, my hope would be that Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, and Arab countries play a larger role in:<br />
-training and advising Afghan judges and attorneys<br />
-training the Afghan Police<br />
-advising the Afghan Police (this would be a stretch for most OIC countries, although some of them such as Turkey are contributing POMLTs as we speak.)</p>
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		<title>By: Faisal Nazir</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383511</link>
		<dc:creator>Faisal Nazir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383511</guid>
		<description>You need to think a little deeper. Taliban were merely youth during the Afghan war against Soviets. Some of them might have been raised in refugee camps in Pakistan too. But Taliban were almost entirely Afghans. The death and destruction they saw during the Soviet invasion and the hardship that those young brains had to go through might actually explain why Taliban were so strict, rigid, and uncompromising. All that Pakistanis want is to see Afghan brothers living in peace and harmony and reveling in prosperity. The destiny of both the peoples of Pakistan and Afghanistan is tied together. Bloodshed in one country affects the other. Taliban were not hostile to Pakistan does not really mean that they were Pakistani puppets. Someone thinking so does not really understand the Afghan history and their mentality of freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need to think a little deeper. Taliban were merely youth during the Afghan war against Soviets. Some of them might have been raised in refugee camps in Pakistan too. But Taliban were almost entirely Afghans. The death and destruction they saw during the Soviet invasion and the hardship that those young brains had to go through might actually explain why Taliban were so strict, rigid, and uncompromising. All that Pakistanis want is to see Afghan brothers living in peace and harmony and reveling in prosperity. The destiny of both the peoples of Pakistan and Afghanistan is tied together. Bloodshed in one country affects the other. Taliban were not hostile to Pakistan does not really mean that they were Pakistani puppets. Someone thinking so does not really understand the Afghan history and their mentality of freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: Faisal Nazir</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383510</link>
		<dc:creator>Faisal Nazir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383510</guid>
		<description>@Prithvi 11/15/2009 at 6:43 pm 
There may be several reasons but two crucial factors must be kept in view. First, the UN has no standing in the eyes of Muslims all over the world in general and of Afghan and Pakistan in particular. The UN is widely perceived, and certainly not without a reason for that, as a mistress of Western powers that has only been used to further their interests at the cost of third world countries, especially the Muslim countries. Contrary to the claims by the West, Afghans do not really see the foreign occupation forces, crusading under the UN flagship, as their liberators. Every one knows that the occupation of Afghanistan is a part of bigger game that has the least to do with the welfare of Afghan Muslims. That is why I suggested an active role for the OIC.

Second, an equally important factor is the fact that Afghan society predominantly consists of strictly Islam-loving people. While they may be scared by and allergic to the foreign forces, a peace force consisting of only Muslim troops and controlled by the OIC will help to reassure them of the nature of their mission, which is peace keeping and facilitating of negotiations. It is not to say that the Muslim peace force will face no problems. Vested interests would rather try to divert the focus in an attempt to keep the bloodshed continuing in that country. But it should be clear that process of national reconciliation and unity in Afghanistan has no better basis than Islam. That may be hard to understand for many non-Muslims due to the fact that many Muslim countries have been fighting in past. That does not really mean that Islam is totally irrelevant factor that can not be used as binding force in Afghanistan. 

The gambit and game of the occupation forces is entirely different from the mission of a proposed peace force in Afghanistan. Also, do not ignore the importance of behind the scene contacts and positive influences of different Islamic organizations and personalities. That is in contrast to the case of the NATO and American forces, which are totally aliens in Afghanistan and no one really trusts them, trying to achieve their goals by the use of deadly mix of force, dollar, deception, and coercion. 

I have deliberately not mentioned Pakistan, Iran, and Central Asian states in the list of potential contributors to proposed peace force. I feel the force should be clear of any regional geo-strategic politics and policies. In addition, many extra-regional vested interests would try to make that a lamenting point to oppose the approach and start playing a dirty game against the peace force if it materializes at all. These evil forces have nothing directly to do with Afghanistan but these forces have come to Afghanistan only to harm the regional countries, including Pakistan, Iran, and Chine.

NOTE: Some people would call my views as a wishful thinking. Well, it may look like that. But, to me, it&#039;s a good excercise to exchnage views. Who knows some good may come out of that exchange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Prithvi 11/15/2009 at 6:43 pm<br />
There may be several reasons but two crucial factors must be kept in view. First, the UN has no standing in the eyes of Muslims all over the world in general and of Afghan and Pakistan in particular. The UN is widely perceived, and certainly not without a reason for that, as a mistress of Western powers that has only been used to further their interests at the cost of third world countries, especially the Muslim countries. Contrary to the claims by the West, Afghans do not really see the foreign occupation forces, crusading under the UN flagship, as their liberators. Every one knows that the occupation of Afghanistan is a part of bigger game that has the least to do with the welfare of Afghan Muslims. That is why I suggested an active role for the OIC.</p>
<p>Second, an equally important factor is the fact that Afghan society predominantly consists of strictly Islam-loving people. While they may be scared by and allergic to the foreign forces, a peace force consisting of only Muslim troops and controlled by the OIC will help to reassure them of the nature of their mission, which is peace keeping and facilitating of negotiations. It is not to say that the Muslim peace force will face no problems. Vested interests would rather try to divert the focus in an attempt to keep the bloodshed continuing in that country. But it should be clear that process of national reconciliation and unity in Afghanistan has no better basis than Islam. That may be hard to understand for many non-Muslims due to the fact that many Muslim countries have been fighting in past. That does not really mean that Islam is totally irrelevant factor that can not be used as binding force in Afghanistan. </p>
<p>The gambit and game of the occupation forces is entirely different from the mission of a proposed peace force in Afghanistan. Also, do not ignore the importance of behind the scene contacts and positive influences of different Islamic organizations and personalities. That is in contrast to the case of the NATO and American forces, which are totally aliens in Afghanistan and no one really trusts them, trying to achieve their goals by the use of deadly mix of force, dollar, deception, and coercion. </p>
<p>I have deliberately not mentioned Pakistan, Iran, and Central Asian states in the list of potential contributors to proposed peace force. I feel the force should be clear of any regional geo-strategic politics and policies. In addition, many extra-regional vested interests would try to make that a lamenting point to oppose the approach and start playing a dirty game against the peace force if it materializes at all. These evil forces have nothing directly to do with Afghanistan but these forces have come to Afghanistan only to harm the regional countries, including Pakistan, Iran, and Chine.</p>
<p>NOTE: Some people would call my views as a wishful thinking. Well, it may look like that. But, to me, it&#8217;s a good excercise to exchnage views. Who knows some good may come out of that exchange.</p>
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		<title>By: Faisal Nazir</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383509</link>
		<dc:creator>Faisal Nazir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383509</guid>
		<description>No jokes please. Don&#039;t include India in liberal democracy. India is one of the worst nightmare place for non-Hindu citizens. Come on, admit the reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No jokes please. Don&#8217;t include India in liberal democracy. India is one of the worst nightmare place for non-Hindu citizens. Come on, admit the reality.</p>
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		<title>By: anan</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383508</link>
		<dc:creator>anan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383508</guid>
		<description>Turgai Sangar 11/16/2009 at 2:36 pm, I don&#039;t understand what you are talking about. Most countries are liberal democracies, including most Latin American countries, Indonesia, Turkey, Malaysia, and India.

Global free market democracy has greatly benefited billions of poor around the world, including in India, Indonesia and Brazil.

1 + 1 =3. We benefit from the success of others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Turgai Sangar 11/16/2009 at 2:36 pm, I don&#8217;t understand what you are talking about. Most countries are liberal democracies, including most Latin American countries, Indonesia, Turkey, Malaysia, and India.</p>
<p>Global free market democracy has greatly benefited billions of poor around the world, including in India, Indonesia and Brazil.</p>
<p>1 + 1 =3. We benefit from the success of others.</p>
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		<title>By: Turgai Sangar</title>
		<link>http://registan.net/index.php/2009/11/12/book-review-the-great-gamble-by-gregory-feifer/comment-page-1/#comment-383507</link>
		<dc:creator>Turgai Sangar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.registan.net/?p=9979#comment-383507</guid>
		<description>&quot;And Joe, the Soviets had allies. Dostum and Nadiri...&quot; 

Just curious: I recall one source, which escaped me, that there was also a small contingent of the Nationale Volksarmee (the GDR&#039;s/East German army) in the Soviet occupation force in AFG. Any views whether this is true?  NVA officers and advisors were certainly present in South Yemen and several African conflict zones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And Joe, the Soviets had allies. Dostum and Nadiri&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>Just curious: I recall one source, which escaped me, that there was also a small contingent of the Nationale Volksarmee (the GDR&#8217;s/East German army) in the Soviet occupation force in AFG. Any views whether this is true?  NVA officers and advisors were certainly present in South Yemen and several African conflict zones.</p>
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